Assist?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

+1 (out)

I'm still looking at the idea that the coach "assisiting" the player had nothing to do with any possible play or action.

Since a following runner had scored, her re-touching or not retouching home would make no difference.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by cteben

because coach, in this play, the lead runner can no longer be assisted.

or for you purists, "coach the rules will not allow me"

(pause for blank stare)
now coach do you have another question?

that is a winner. and moot as andy said to boot. you get the out if the coach gets his team to appeal and you do not suggest in any manner the appeal route.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Hmmm... say that to the coach, and all you'll get is a blank stare... he asked you why there's no out for assisting the runner.

i believe if you use maark's words with the post before it then you have your answer and you state i have made my ruling, let's play ball. good situation

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

No one likes an OOJ (Overly-Officious Jerk).

And?

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by BretMan

No one likes an OOJ (Overly-Officious Jerk).

If the runner going back to touch the plate is moot, then I would say that any assistance from the coach is also moot.

This is an OFFICIAL FORUM (SOFTBALL) we should be assisting each other. The comment was well received by Esq ump, No where was there anything in there that was an OOJ, it was a clear and informative comment.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

This is an OFFICIAL FORUM (SOFTBALL) we should be assisting each other. The comment was well received by Esq ump, No where was there anything in there that was an OOJ, it was a clear and informative comment.

Sorry if anyone was offended by me repeating another poster's own words. If you find the term "overly-officious jerk" insulting, then maybe you should take it up with the person who coined the phrase and introduced it to the forum.

I would consider calling this runner out for being assisted by the coach as being overly-officious, because I don't believe the out is warranted (for reasons already stated).

Once the trailing runner scores, the lead runner who missed the plate may no longer correct her mistake. Thus, her opportunity to run the bases has ended. If she no longer has the right to run the bases, then you can't consider whatever the coach did as assisting her in running the bases.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

How did the coach stop the player from entering the dugout.......important.....

jOEL

Sorry, those that asked this... I was away from the computer the entire weekend.

The coach grabbed her, and as he was telling her to go retouch, he turned her around and gave her a push.

(For those saying this was important ... why?)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

This is an OFFICIAL FORUM (SOFTBALL) we should be assisting each other. The comment was well received by Esq ump, No where was there anything in there that was an OOJ, it was a clear and informative comment.

Maybe the point of my post was unclear, as I thought it was completely clear that assisting the runner at this point is NOT an out (it can't be ... assisting her in doing something she can't do anyway is not assisting the runner)The point of my question (addressed well by cteben and ronald) was ... how do you answer the question about why the runner was not out on the apparent assist, without tipping off the coach that there's still an appeal play available to him.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Maybe the point of my post was unclear, as I thought it was completely clear that assisting the runner at this point is NOT an out (it can't be ... assisting her in doing something she can't do anyway is not assisting the runner)The point of my question (addressed well by cteben and ronald) was ... how do you answer the question about why the runner was not out on the apparent assist, without tipping off the coach that there's still an appeal play available to him.

I think there could be debate on both sides of whether or not you need to worry about tipping off the coach. I think that preventive officiating gives us the ability and responsibility to prevent a coach from intentionally or otherwise breaking the rules. If they chose to do so anyway, that is on them. I don't think it falls under preventive officiating to lead an opposing coach down the road of "they did something illegal and I can't tell you what it is but you need to figure it out so I can call someone out".

I would say what has already been stated: "Coach, because the second runner has already scored, the first runner cannot return to touch the base. Therefore, the coach can't be penalized for assisting her in doing something she can't do."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sorry, those that asked this... I was away from the computer the entire weekend.

The coach grabbed her, and as he was telling her to go retouch, he turned her around and gave her a push.

(For those saying this was important ... why?)

It would have been important only if an assisting call would have been valid. The OP doesn't infer whether the direction was physical or not. Even if physical, I would think it would have to actually assit the runner. For example, if the coach just came to the dugout entrance and put up his hands and she walked into the coach, I would have nothing unless there was a movement (extend the arms) to prod the runner to return to the plate.

With the trailing runner scoring, there was nothing with which the coach to assist.

[cteben]

the issue is gonna be tipping off the appeal. either way, if appealed, you'll be blamed for hinting it, even if you did nothing to suggest it.

I've said this before, and I say it again. better to loudly respond with "I got NOTHING" than to be a do nothing by saying nothing and/or doing nothing, or even worse to respond in a manner that could be construed as a tip-off.

since you are damned if you do, and damned if you dont, just stay with a "I got nothing" answer until the issue goes away, or someone on the team, usually the smartest one realizes and requests or makes the appeal.

now, if you are doing college ball, as umpire at the plate, you are required to signal safe along with announcing a "No Tag" verbal. with that ncaa verbal requirement, if they dont appeal, they cant blame us.

[DaveASA/FED]

Given all this time to think about it I think I would say "That runner has completed her baserunning responsibilities so I can't have an out for assisting a runner that is no longer running the bases coach"

To me that is a general answer that provides all the important info (why I dont' have an out) without giving away anything about the appeal. Some might argue that it makes the coach believe that I think she touched home....I can't argue that might be inferred in that statement but if ever asked by the defensive coach I could say "that was not my intent, I meant that another runner had scored so that runner could no longer re-touch the plate, so her baserunning responsibilities were done". Honestly I think if a defensive coach came out and started to talk to me about this play he/she would eventually ask something about that runner not touching home and in effect would make an appeal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

With the trailing runner scoring, there was nothing with which the coach to assist.

Absolutely ... which is why I did not think the manner of the assist was relevant when I first posted.

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Absolutely ... which is why I did not think the manner of the assist was relevant when I first posted.

I am going to have an out even if I have to apply common sense. This is very good and healthy discussion. (Do not let it happen)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

I am going to have an out even if I have to apply common sense. This is very good and healthy discussion. (Do not let it happen)

What is the out for? The runner who appears to have been assisted was not actually assisted - she was no longer even a runner at that point.