Fly Ball Assist

JamesV · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 12:40pm

R1 on First. Batter hits fly ball toward F7.
Ball hits F7's glove and is caught by F8 who was in the area. R1 heads to 2nd Base as soon as ball his F7's glove.
After F8 catches the ball, she throws to F3 who tages 1st Base, appealing that R1 left early.

Umpire calls R1 out for leaving early and will not listen to coach who states that the runner is released after the ball touches a fielder.

What is ASA reference indicating that this was an assist not a caught ball?
Thanks
Jim

gipper · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 12:53pm

The runner advanced legally. Fed 8-41-e and 8-8-12. I would think it would be the same in ASA

streamdoc · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 12:56pm

Look at ASA Rule 8-4-E. Doesn't say anything about an "assist", and it is still a caught flyball. But the runner can leave the base as soon as the flyball is first touched by a defensive player. The umpire got it wrong.

SeattleMetroUmp · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 01:04pm

Absolutely correct. That is why with runners on and fly ball hit to the outfield, I yell "Touch!!!", not "Catch" as some umpires have told me to. My partner made that mistake in a game last year and I will never ever forget that rule because of that play!!!!

Mike

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 01:14pm

Maybe umpire would not listen because he felt the runner left before the touch by F7.

If not - what happened when the coach protested?

streamdoc · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 01:14pm

Is that you? How did you feel yesterday when you got up. I'm still sore, sore, sore.

SeattleMetroUmp · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 04:01pm

Yes Troy it is!!! I was more tired than sore. My ankle was really bothering me yesterday morning, so I ended up doing 3 plates in a row!!!

Mike

orioles35 · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 06, 2005, 04:24pm

Another way to think about it is if a flyball is hit to a fielder and he purposely doesn't secure the ball in his glove, but keeps batting it back up in the air while running towards the infield. If the fielder had to CATCH the ball before the tag, then the runner couldn't advance. It's first touch, so the runner can tag and attempt to advance at that point.

IRISHMAFIA · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 11:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by SeattleMetroUmp
Absolutely correct. That is why with runners on and fly ball hit to the outfield, I yell "Touch!!!", not "Catch" as some umpires have told me to. My partner made that mistake in a game last year and I will never ever forget that rule because of that play!!!!

Mike

Speaking ASA

You shouldn't be yelling anything unless calling an out or no catch.

CecilOne · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:25pm

I thought we had been taught only "yell" for an out and just give a silent "safe" signal for no catch; silent like fair ball to prevent misunderstanding.

mcrowder · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:32pm

Yup. Surely should not be helping out the offense by giving them a timing cue like "TOUCH!"

streamdoc · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 06:07pm

I would agree that it is best not to give the offense a cue, and therefore I do not yell "touch" or "catch" or anything else upon the first touch. Nobody in my association has told me to do so, although there are a number of folks who do it. I was thinking that it might be a good idea, but have reconsidered. I also, would not yell "no catch" for the reason stated above. I will continue to only verbalize the out when it is actually made.

IRISHMAFIA · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 07, 2005, 08:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CecilOne
I thought we had been taught only "yell" for an out and just give a silent "safe" signal for no catch; silent like fair ball to prevent misunderstanding.

Ever work on a field with overhanging branches from trees or an open field with a tree in play? I know you have.

Upon contact of a live batted ball with a part of that tree, or a wire or anything else hanging in the field of play, the umpire should announce that it is not a catch.

As long as it is pronounced clearly as noted in another thread, this would be an appropriate call.

SRW · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 08, 2005, 01:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by streamdoc
I would agree that it is best not to give the offense a cue, and therefore I do not yell "touch" or "catch" or anything else upon the first touch. Nobody in my association has told me to do so, although there are a number of folks who do it. I was thinking that it might be a good idea, but have reconsidered. I also, would not yell "no catch" for the reason stated above. I will continue to only verbalize the out when it is actually made.

Actually, they (GH, BH, and GsC) did instruct us to call out "touch" or "catch" for our partner's benefit of watching the tag-up by the baserunners. Not that I agree with it (I agree with you on not calling it unless it's an out) but it was taught in our training.

IRISHMAFIA · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 08, 2005, 06:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by SRW

Actually, they (GH, BH, and GsC) did instruct us to call out "touch" or "catch" for our partner's benefit of watching the tag-up by the baserunners. Not that I agree with it (I agree with you on not calling it unless it's an out) but it was taught in our training.

The problem with this is that by the time you get "touch" out of your mouth, the runner is legally gone and your partner may inappropriately rule them out.

I have seen this happen twice and I consider it a lazy man's mechanic. The mechanic is for the umpire responsible for a tag to use their eyes and not depend on someone else for the information. Is it always possible to see both at the same time? No, but setting up in the best position available and using your own eyes is a lot more reliable than waiting for someone else to feed you the information.