Dirt and the ball

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I actually address this with HS coaches when I see it during their scrimmages/play days.

The OP clearly indicates the ball being rubbed in the dirt. I've even seen pitchers drop the ball and stand on the ball and move their feet to grind the ball into the ground.

As the umpire in a game I would stop them immediately and instruct them to not do it again.

I will inspect the ball and either keep it or replace it. I will then instruct the coach that if their player believe the ball to be too slippery, I will be more than happy to rub it down, or maybe have them rub it down in their hands. If they want to use dirt, I don't have a problem with that as long as all they are doing is rubbing it down, not marking or scraping it.

I make it clear to the coaches that any player found to be doing so after our little talk will need to find a seat on the bench.

I think the issue in the OP isn't so much the dirt, but how the pitcher was attempting to scuff up the ball.

Hmm, to remove it would mean to say that the action was illegal. Where does it say to issue a warning and take the ball from the pitcher? Or are you just making that up because you think it's the right thing to do even if there is no rules support?

[NSABill]

You impress me with your Carnegie skills.
I am sure you are a joy to work with, young man.

[HugoTafurst]

BINGO .....I was holding off thinking that maybe I was misreading your posts....


But now, I am leaning towards thing that you truely are on here just to raise stink and pick fights.

[EsqUmp]

People regularly ask me to quote specific areas of a rule book and bash anything that isn't spelled out in black and white. They all want "rule book support." So now I'm asking for it. It's hypocritical to just complain that I am asking for it.

[pob14]

Umpire12, despite his use of the word "Bingo," I'm pretty sure Hugo's post was aimed at someone else . . . .

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Hmm, to remove it would mean to say that the action was illegal.

Show me where it says it is illegal.

Where does it say to issue a warning and take the ball from the pitcher?

Show me the rule that says I cannot.

Or are you just making that up because you think it's the right thing to do even if there is no rules support?

Again, citations. Show me where it says anything I did could not be done.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Show me where it says it is illegal.



Show me the rule that says I cannot.



Again, citations. Show me where it says anything I did could not be done.

By taking the ball away, you're saying that the pitcher can't do it. If she can do it, then you wouldn't be taking the ball away. Where does it say you can issue warnings for actions you deem to be violations?

Interesting how to change things to "show me where it says I can't" now that the tables are turned.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Just what I thought, no rules, just personal opinion. Yet you wanted me to provide citations.

BTW

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Show me where it says it is illegal.

F.Y.I. 1.3.6 renders the ball illegal. However, if a pitch hasn't been thrown with the ball, I get rid of the ball.

Show me the rule that says I cannot.

Again, citations. Show me where it says anything I did could not be done.

10.2.3.f gives the umpire that authority to deal with it and 3.6.1 helps with that

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

F.Y.I. 1.3.6 renders the ball illegal. However, if a pitch hasn't been thrown with the ball, I get rid of the ball.

10.2.3.f gives the umpire that authority to deal with it and 3.6.1 helps with that

So you choose to ignore the rule. How would you handle it if the pitcher clearly rubbed the ball up with dirt, you go out to change the ball, and the offensive coach requests that an illegal pitch be called? By rule, this is an illegal pitch. Would you call it? How would you handle a protest? Are there any other illegal pitches you would choose not to call?

[EsqUmp]

ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

Two different scenarios. In the first, the dirt is being "rubbed" into the ball. In the second, the dirt was only in the hand, and nothing is mentioned about the dirt being rubbed into the ball.

I see no inconsistencies there.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

That's nice, but the discussion is HS ball.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1 to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

It may be odd, but it is a published ASA interpretation and thus the correct answer.

Placing the dirt directly on the ball is interpreted as "applying a foreign substance". Using dirt on the hand is interpreted as using "an approved drying agent" and does not require the pitcher to wipe off her hand before touching the ball.

Having said that...would you not consider rubbing the ball in the dirt as applying a foreign substance?

[azbigdawg]

pitchers HATE brand new slick balls, which is fine.... so what I do with any new balls that havent been rubbed down already.... is rub them down myself ... If I see the pitcher do it, we swap it out for one that is, and I check/rub it myself before returning it to play. No biggie.... no hassle...

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Having said that...would you not consider rubbing the ball in the dirt as applying a foreign substance?

How FOREIGN could it be? We play on it!