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-   -   Dirt and the ball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/90289-dirt-ball.html)

Rita C Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:37pm

Dirt and the ball
 
Pitcher takes ball and rubs the ball on the dirt. What do you do, if anything?

High school rules. Please use rule.

Thank you.

Rita

okla21fan Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:07am

Do you 'do anything' any other time the ball rubs on the dirt? :D

Rita C Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by okla21fan (Post 834732)
Do you 'do anything' any other time the ball rubs on the dirt? :D

That's not helpful.

Az.Ump Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:20am

Call time. Walk out to the pitcher and tell her not to do that again and give her a different ball. Tell her coach. Return the ball to the home coach if you judge it has been defaced and get a replacement. If she repeats doing it again eject.

ART. 6 . . . Any defacing, treatment or device that would change the ball spec-
ifications listed in 1-3-3 are prohibited and render the ball illegal.

Paul

EsqUmp Thu Mar 29, 2012 06:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Az.Ump (Post 834734)
Call time. Walk out to the pitcher and tell her not to do that again and give her a different ball. Tell her coach. Return the ball to the home coach if you judge it has been defaced and get a replacement. If she repeats doing it again eject.

ART. 6 . . . Any defacing, treatment or device that would change the ball spec-
ifications listed in 1-3-3 are prohibited and render the ball illegal.

Paul

Have you ever seen a ball DEFACED by dirt? Which "specification" was changed?

RKBUmp Thu Mar 29, 2012 07:11am

Normal wear and tear of the ball is one thing, purposely grinding the ball into the ground is defacing the ball.

JEL Thu Mar 29, 2012 07:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 834740)
Have you ever seen a ball DEFACED by dirt? Which "specification" was changed?

Then why does MLB change change them out once they are fouled into the dirt?

Must just be a "clone" thing huh?

MD Longhorn Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 834733)
That's not helpful.

I thought it was.

MD Longhorn Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 834742)
Normal wear and tear of the ball is one thing, purposely grinding the ball into the ground is defacing the ball.

I agree, but she said rub - and I take her at her word. Grinding or something prolonged that I think may damage the ball, I would address as above.

Just rubbing it? That's nothing.

Rich Ives Thu Mar 29, 2012 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire12 (Post 834744)
they change them because the mark on the ball makes it easier for the batter to pick up the rotation of the ball not because they believe the ball has been defaced.occasionally after an infield hit, the pitcher will request a new ball because of a dirt mark on the ball but most of the time, after a pitch in the dirt, its the catcher who requests an inspection from the umpire not the batter. if the catcher thought he could give his pitcher an advantage by through a defaced ball , dont you think he would just return the marked ball to the pitcher?

Nice try.

JEL Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire12 (Post 834744)
they change them because the mark on the ball makes it easier for the batter to pick up the rotation of the ball not because they believe the ball has been defaced.occasionally after an infield hit, the pitcher will request a new ball because of a dirt mark on the ball but most of the time, after a pitch in the dirt, its the catcher who requests an inspection from the umpire not the batter. if the catcher thought he could give his pitcher an advantage by through a defaced ball , dont you think he would just return the marked ball to the pitcher?

So a "dirty ball" is not defaced?

umpirebob71 Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:16pm

I fail to see how rubbing a little dirt on a ball is going to change the size, COR, compression, or the weight & circumference of the ball.

DaveASA/FED Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpirebob71 (Post 834780)
I fail to see how rubbing a little dirt on a ball is going to change the size, COR, compression, or the weight & circumference of the ball.

Placing rock resin doesn't change any of those either (at least not making it outside acceptable tolerances) but it still changes the ball, makes it easier to grab so it's illegal. Same concept here scuffing it a precise manner that allows the pitcher to get a better grip to throw a more wicked (choose pitch) is an advantage and illegal by rule.

umpirebob71 Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:57pm

I agree, Dave. The point I was was trying to make was that applying 1-3-6 is, I think, incorrect. I feel that 6-2-2 is a little more accurate. Just my humble opinion.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Mar 29, 2012 01:11pm

I actually address this with HS coaches when I see it during their scrimmages/play days.

The OP clearly indicates the ball being rubbed in the dirt. I've even seen pitchers drop the ball and stand on the ball and move their feet to grind the ball into the ground.

As the umpire in a game I would stop them immediately and instruct them to not do it again.

I will inspect the ball and either keep it or replace it. I will then instruct the coach that if their player believe the ball to be too slippery, I will be more than happy to rub it down, or maybe have them rub it down in their hands. If they want to use dirt, I don't have a problem with that as long as all they are doing is rubbing it down, not marking or scraping it.

I make it clear to the coaches that any player found to be doing so after our little talk will need to find a seat on the bench.

I think the issue in the OP isn't so much the dirt, but how the pitcher was attempting to scuff up the ball.


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