USSSA Tag Out Scenario

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by OKExplorist

I'm confident the ball was in the glove and the tag was made.

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

That is all that you need then for the out call. Nothing more.

But we're dealing with the wild and wacky world of USSSA softball, where the definition of "a tag" is just a little bit different...

TAG OUT. A tagout is the putting out of a runner (including the batter runner),
who is not touching a base, by touching the runner with a live ball or
with the glove or hand when the live ball is securely held there in by a fielder.
The ball is not considered as having been held securely if it is juggled or
dropped after the touching unless the runner deliberately knocks the ball from
the hand of the fielder.

Hmmmm? Was the ball "juggled or dropped after the touching"? Their rule seems to say that the runner would be safe- at least, if the umpires had actually seen the ball on the ground immediately following the tag.

I'm not trying to beat you up here. Sometimes, you get blocked out or aren't able to see everything you'd like to see. You made the call you thought was correct based on what you did see, solicited help from your partner when asked, didn't really receive anything overwhelming enough to make you change your mind, then ruled as best you could.

Been there, done that! I'm not sure what you could have done differently.

As for the coaches, I might give them just a little more leash, just because of the odd circumstances surrounding the play and the possibility that maybe you did blow this one. But once I've explained it and we're back to playing ball, I'm not going to listen to them rehash things over and over.

I think you were probably right to let them know enough was enough. But I didn't really like to frame my warnings with an "or else" qualifier (or else you're in the parking lot"). I think that can make the umpire look like the aggressor and serves to put the coach on the defensive. Just let them know you're done discussing it then, if they keep it up, do what you got to do.

[OKExplorist]

Originally Posted by Andy

Maybe a better question would have been: "Did you see the ball on the ground?"

Andy...I don't think my post was clear. I was asking the forum "what they have." I asked my PU what he saw. I like to leave the questions open-ended so it doesn't limit their response to me.

[OKExplorist]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I'm not trying to beat you up here. Sometimes, you get blocked out or aren't able to see everything you'd like to see.

That's one of my problems with this play and call. I NEVER saw the ball on the ground and I watched F6 until the ball went to the F1. I was even willing to overturn my call if the PU could provide information on when the ball came out. He couldn't do that.

Now that I'm three days post-game, I don't believe this can be called a blown call because I called it exactly as I saw it. I see it more as an unfortunate situation.

My learning point from this, I think, will be to hustle just a little bit more to the ball side of the play to ensure the ball is still in the glove.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by OKExplorist

Andy...I don't think my post was clear. I was asking the forum "what they have." I asked my PU what he saw. I like to leave the questions open-ended so it doesn't limit their response to me.

Alright....I misunderstood.

I still stand by my answer that a yes or no question is a better option. Just how I was taught. You made the call based on what you saw, a coach or player brings something to your attention that you may not have seen due to being blocked, weird angle, etc...you ask your partner, "Did you see X?", take that information, then stick with or change your call.

Asking an open ended question may not get you the information that you are looking for.

Again....just my opinion, you are free to take it or leave it as you see fit.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by OKExplorist

That's one of my problems with this play and call. I NEVER saw the ball on the ground and I watched F6 until the ball went to the F1. I was even willing to overturn my call if the PU could provide information on when the ball came out. He couldn't do that.

Now that I'm three days post-game, I don't believe this can be called a blown call because I called it exactly as I saw it. I see it more as an unfortunate situation.

My learning point from this, I think, will be to hustle just a little bit more to the ball side of the play to ensure the ball is still in the glove.

I must have mis-understood this:

My partner said he did see the ball on the ground as F6 was getting up but was blocked on the tag by the catcher.

I read that to mean that he saw something you didn't and that he saw the ball on the ground sometime before F6 collected herself and you saw her come up with the ball.