USSSA Tag Out Scenario

[OKExplorist]

In the last game of a seven game day, I found myself smack-dab in the middle of controversy. Here's the info:

R1 on first. Me in B. Pitch is released. R1 stealing second. Catcher rockets ball to F6 as she comes in to cover second. R1 jumps up a bit to slide into second. As she does, F6 makes the catch at knee height on the first base side of second and applies the tag to the back (underside) of R1's left leg as R1 is going to the ground to enter her slide. As a result of the tag being under the leg both R1 and F6 end up going to the ground. I hesitate, see the play twice and call the out. The crowd and coaches erupt in disgust. I stay on the play as F6 stands up with the ball in glove.

First base coach calls time and comes to me and calmly asks me to explain the call. I do. He's not satisfied and said the ball was on the ground. I told him a didn't have that. He requested I ask for help. I did. My partner said he did see the ball on the ground as F6 was getting up but was blocked on the tag by the catcher. We concluded he didn't have enough information to give me to change the call. I step aside and confirm the out. Two outs.

We resume play while a bunch of belly-aching comes from the fan. After third out, the third base coach has to walk by me to get to his dugout. He asks me to explain my call. I get about three words into it and he erupts about how the ball was on the ground the whole time. I stop my explaination to tell him he can either listen politely to my explanation or watch from the parking lot. I then turned away to take my position. Halfway through the next half-inning he was still complaining loudly (not directly at me but about me) to a fellow coach in the dugout.

You make the call......
1) What would you have called on the pick-off attempt?
2) Would you have changed your call based upon your partner's observation?
3) Should the coach have been ejected and why?

[Skahtboi]

1) HTBT. Even with the information you have provided. The important question is did F6 have control of the ball when the tag was applied? Did she lose it when falling to the ground? Or, did she never have control of the ball?

3) Again, HTBT, but if he was belly aching loud enough to garner attention and try to show you up on your call, then yes, he would have been out in the parking lot.

[Skahtboi]

Oh...and to answer #2 we would still need the info I asked for in the previous post.

[MD Longhorn]

Can't speak to the tag - you were there, I was not. If the player had control of the ball on the tag, you have an out.

I would not have entertained the 3BC at all ... not for one second. You've already had the discussion, and it was over. If he was not HC, a VERY brief, "Coach, I've already discussed this play with your manager, we're not going over it again now." If he was the HC, remove with your manager.

And yes, if he kept barking after I told him that was enough, then he gets to learn what enough is.

(OTOH, since you DID try to entertain this conversation, you kind of have to let him have a little rope ... a very little.)

[OKExplorist]

Ball was in the glove, tag applied, ball was in the glove when she stood up. From my position (10-12 ft from the bag looking straight down toward third) I had no reason to suspect the ball was ever on the ground.

HC was 3rd base coach but 1st base coach requested the help. HC seemed calmed when he approached me and asked for my explanation. I was calm through the whole thing so I had no problem telling him what I saw. That is until he decided he'd rather yell than listen to me.

When I told him he'd spend the evening in the parking lot, he shut up and went to the dugout to have his conversation with another coach/parent. Probably should've tossed just for the fact he was arguing at the half-inning.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by OKExplorist

Probably should've tossed just for the fact he was arguing at the half-inning.

Not necessarily. They have a right to ask question, and to express their disagreement. It is simply a matter of how they go about doing that.

Now, back to your original post. If, in your judgment, the fielder had possession/control of the ball when she applied the tag, then you would have an out. Subsequent action has little bearing on that aspect of the play.

[CecilOne]

A) "F6 makes the catch at knee height on the first base side of second and applies the tag to the back (underside) of R1's left leg "

is an out.

B) Your partner saying the was on the ground as F6 got up cast doubt on her control and so did you end up guessing an out?

IOW, certainty of A is ok, but not if B is true.