Safe or Out?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Just a reminder before MountieSB lets us in on the actual call.

We are seeing this from a prime angle not available to the umpire on the field and in slow motion, another option not available to that umpire.

And even with that, we have different opinions about what is and what should be.

[MountieSB]

After the call, our head coach went out and asked if the umpire saw the SS bobbling the ball. The umpire said he did, but since she controlled the ball at the moment of the tag, the baserunner was out. We didn't like that explanation, but it was his call to make.

This is another angle which backs up his claim that he saw the bobble. It was a big game and the crew did a very good job, but (you know us coaches!) we would have liked the call to go the other way.

Thanks for all of your input. We're always trying to grow in our understanding of the rules and how the games are called. Appreciate it!

[rwest]

Originally Posted by MountieSB

After the call, our head coach went out and asked if the umpire saw the SS bobbling the ball. The umpire said he did, but since she controlled the ball at the moment of the tag, the baserunner was out. We didn't like that explanation, but it was his call to make.

This is another angle which backs up his claim that he saw the bobble. It was a big game and the crew did a very good job, but (you know us coaches!) we would have liked the call to go the other way.

Thanks for all of your input. We're always trying to grow in our understanding of the rules and how the games are called. Appreciate it!

The umpire is correct in that if he believes control was established at the time of the tag the runner is out if the loss of control was due to a separate act. Think of a swipe tag where there is control on the tag and then on the way up the ball moves. This is an out. Now I don't agree that that is the case in this point, but we are seeing this in slow motion. As someone has on their tag line the worst thing to happen to officiating is instant replay. We can't slow the play down like we can with video. We are taught to replay the play in our minds, but even with that we can't slow it down. Also, I can't say that I would not have made the same call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

The second video offers another dimension which, IMO, makes it even clearer there was no control of the ball.

However, as noted, this is a judgment call and even though the umpire saw the "bobble" I doubt he saw it the same as others.

On another note, this angle also show me this umpire ended up too close to the play. That wouldn't necessarily hurt on this call, but I wouldn't want to be that close to the players, even if pointing at the ball, tag or spot of the play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The second video offers another dimension which, IMO, makes it even clearer there was no control of the ball.

However, as noted, this is a judgment call and even though the umpire saw the "bobble" I doubt he saw it the same as others.

On another note, this angle also show me this umpire ended up too close to the play. That wouldn't necessarily hurt on this call, but I wouldn't want to be that close to the players, even if pointing at the ball, tag or spot of the play.

+1 ... move me to the "safe" side of the ledger now. But BU did not have these two views. (And agreed he's too close - I almost said that from the first video).

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

+1 ... move me to the "safe" side of the ledger now. But BU did not have these two views. (And agreed he's too close - I almost said that from the first video).

Not saying this is an NCAA game but maybe he calls NCAA as well. Don't they preach being more on top of the play? By that I mean being closer on tag plays.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rwest

Not saying this is an NCAA game but maybe he calls NCAA as well. Don't they preach being more on top of the play? By that I mean being closer on tag plays.

The infamous "fourth dimension" which really doesn't exist?

I have no problem with an umpire "stepping in" to see something which may be hidden, but when doing so, forget about using a "sell" mechanic. But this guy seemed to move even closer after seeing the play and determing his call.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The infamous "fourth dimension" which really doesn't exist?

I have no problem with an umpire "stepping in" to see something which may be hidden, but when doing so, forget about using a "sell" mechanic. But this guy seemed to move even closer after seeing the play and determing his call.

I knew it was a matter of time when you would mention the distance on the umpire. To give some perspective on this play, this was a four umpire crew. The calling umpire does not work NCAA.

To question Irish Mike: given the different angles, wouldn't a "third-dimension" view show the bobble? He was "close" in the first video and still shielded by the runner's leg.
(Disclosure: I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, while I think that ASA's "10-12" is a bit rigid (even with the presentation in 2011 in OKC) and while the NCAA did advocate "close", I got a feeling that philosophy might be changing from my recent NCAA camp).