Safe or Out?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

To those wanting to call this safe... the ball moves inside the glove on almost every tag play. I don't see her losing control here.

Yes, and that glove is usually closed to retain the ball which demonstrates control of the ball. That is not the case here.

[x-tremeump]

I have an out, I will explain. The position of the Umpire is perfect, however the Video has a different view than we as Umpires will have. The Umpire was blocked from the runner during the lack of control of the ball. I think that he will want to see the ball and make an OUT call.

[EsqUmp]

The defender had control of the ball. The runner slides in and causes the defender to no longer control the ball. The runner reaches the base. Only after reaching the base does the defender gain control of the ball. Even then, it doesn't appear that she does. She has to got back to the glove again as the ball pops out. The ball has to be secured held at the time the tag is applied, not after.

[KJUmp]

Would love to have had that video go about :03 sec. longer.
He gave a point, another few seconds would have told us if the point was indicating that the BU saw a bobble, or had a good tag and an out.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yes, and that glove is usually closed to retain the ball which demonstrates control of the ball. That is not the case here.

Sure the ball may move but not as much as it did on this play. If it moves that much in the glove and I see it, that's not an out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Just a reminder before MountieSB lets us in on the actual call.

We are seeing this from a prime angle not available to the umpire on the field and in slow motion, another option not available to that umpire.

And even with that, we have different opinions about what is and what should be.

[MountieSB]

After the call, our head coach went out and asked if the umpire saw the SS bobbling the ball. The umpire said he did, but since she controlled the ball at the moment of the tag, the baserunner was out. We didn't like that explanation, but it was his call to make.

This is another angle which backs up his claim that he saw the bobble. It was a big game and the crew did a very good job, but (you know us coaches!) we would have liked the call to go the other way.

Thanks for all of your input. We're always trying to grow in our understanding of the rules and how the games are called. Appreciate it!

[rwest]

Originally Posted by MountieSB

After the call, our head coach went out and asked if the umpire saw the SS bobbling the ball. The umpire said he did, but since she controlled the ball at the moment of the tag, the baserunner was out. We didn't like that explanation, but it was his call to make.

This is another angle which backs up his claim that he saw the bobble. It was a big game and the crew did a very good job, but (you know us coaches!) we would have liked the call to go the other way.

Thanks for all of your input. We're always trying to grow in our understanding of the rules and how the games are called. Appreciate it!

The umpire is correct in that if he believes control was established at the time of the tag the runner is out if the loss of control was due to a separate act. Think of a swipe tag where there is control on the tag and then on the way up the ball moves. This is an out. Now I don't agree that that is the case in this point, but we are seeing this in slow motion. As someone has on their tag line the worst thing to happen to officiating is instant replay. We can't slow the play down like we can with video. We are taught to replay the play in our minds, but even with that we can't slow it down. Also, I can't say that I would not have made the same call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

The second video offers another dimension which, IMO, makes it even clearer there was no control of the ball.

However, as noted, this is a judgment call and even though the umpire saw the "bobble" I doubt he saw it the same as others.

On another note, this angle also show me this umpire ended up too close to the play. That wouldn't necessarily hurt on this call, but I wouldn't want to be that close to the players, even if pointing at the ball, tag or spot of the play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The second video offers another dimension which, IMO, makes it even clearer there was no control of the ball.

However, as noted, this is a judgment call and even though the umpire saw the "bobble" I doubt he saw it the same as others.

On another note, this angle also show me this umpire ended up too close to the play. That wouldn't necessarily hurt on this call, but I wouldn't want to be that close to the players, even if pointing at the ball, tag or spot of the play.

+1 ... move me to the "safe" side of the ledger now. But BU did not have these two views. (And agreed he's too close - I almost said that from the first video).