Uncaught Third Strike - NCAA

[Andy]

I need some help with a ruling based on NCAA rules. I know what the ruling should be for ASA and HS, but was unable to find a clear answer in the NCAA book. The play:

0-2 count on the batter, no runners on base, pitch comes in, bounces in front of the plate, batter swings for strike three. Ball deflects off of F2 back toward home plate, B/R who has swung now recognizes that the D3K is in effect and starts toward first. As B/R is discarding her bat (still in her hands), the bat hits the ball and knocks it away from F2 trying to retrieve it. It is hard to describe, but there was no "intent" to knock the ball away, it was a completley incidental contact. In ASA and HS, I would rule the B/R out for interfering with a D3K, but unable to find a clear ruling for NCAA....Help?

A rule citing would also be useful.

[SRW]

Ncaa 12.4.13

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

I need some help with a ruling based on NCAA rules. I know what the ruling should be for ASA and HS, but was unable to find a clear answer in the NCAA book. The play:

0-2 count on the batter, no runners on base, pitch comes in, bounces in front of the plate, batter swings for strike three. Ball deflects off of F2 back toward home plate, B/R who has swung now recognizes that the D3K is in effect and starts toward first. As B/R is discarding her bat (still in her hands),[/B] the bat hits the ball and knocks it away from F2 trying to retrieve it. It is hard to describe, but there was no "intent" to knock the ball away, it was a completley incidental contact. In ASA and HS, I would rule the B/R out for interfering with a D3K, but unable to find a clear ruling for NCAA....Help?

A rule citing would also be useful.

Interesting play....
12.4.13 covers the batter-runner making contact with the ball on a dropped third strike.

11.15.3 (Hitting Ball a Second Time) would be the applicable rule for your sitch:
"The batter may not swing and miss a pitched ball and then intentionally hit it on a second swing or after it bounces off the catcher or her glove/mitt.
EFFECT:The ball is dead, the batter is declared out, and each base runner must return to the base legally occupied at the time of the pitch."
That being said, the operative word there is intentionally.
You said in your sitch...."there was no 'intent' to knock the ball away."
However this part is a bit ambiguous...."As B/R is discarding her bat (still in her hands)....", was the bat in her hands or out of her hands when the bat contacted the ball?

In her hands, we've got a swing, now we've got decide if she did it intentionally to determine if we have a dead ball B/R out or live ball B/R advances with liability to be put out.
Out of her hands, we have a discarded bat, 11.14.3 (Dropped Third-Strike Rule), intent is not a factor, but unless the ball rolled against the bat (and your sitch had bat hitting ball), we've got a dead ball and an out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Ncaa 12.4.13

Wow! Four minute response! That's quicker than applying for a doorway in Seattle!

[robbie]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Interesting play....
12.4.13 covers the batter-runner making contact with the ball on a dropped third strike.

11.15.3 (Hitting Ball a Second Time) would be the applicable rule for your sitch:
"The batter may not swing and miss a pitched ball and then intentionally hit it on a second swing or after it bounces off the catcher or her glove/mitt.
EFFECT:The ball is dead, the batter is declared out, and each base runner must return to the base legally occupied at the time of the pitch."
That being said, the operative word there is intentionally.
You said in your sitch...."there was no 'intent' to knock the ball away."
However this part is a bit ambiguous...."As B/R is discarding her bat (still in her hands)....", was the bat in her hands or out of her hands when the bat contacted the ball?

In her hands, we've got a swing, now we've got decide if she did it intentionally to determine if we have a dead ball B/R out or live ball B/R advances with liability to be put out.
Out of her hands, we have a discarded bat, 11.14.3 (Dropped Third-Strike Rule), intent is not a factor, but unless the ball rolled against the bat (and your sitch had bat hitting ball), we've got a dead ball and an out.

Not arguing with the result of your post at all, but the batter does become a batter runner upon the 3rd strike not being caught.

Well, guess I should clarify too - That is the case in NSA - the only code I call.

[Andy]

Hmmmm...the way that I read 12.4.13 is consistant with the ruling I would make in ASA or HS...dead ball, B/R out for interfering with a D3K.

She had already made her initial swing, right handed batter, her dugout was on the first base side, she had just recognized the D3K, started taking her first steps toward first, and was going to release her bat toward her dugout. She was holding the bat in her right hand and it was moving pointed down toward the ground and contacted the ball. In my judgement, there was no intent to knock the ball away, but it did prevent the catcher from getting to the ball to make a play.

I was BU, the whole thing happened in front of me...I don't think my partner saw the entire thing since it all happened almost right under his feet.

We allowed the B/R to remain at first....I think we probably blew this one.....

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by robbie

Not arguing with the result of your post at all, but the batter does become a batter runner upon the 3rd strike not being caught.

Are the batter-runner and her equipment the same thing?

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Are the batter-runner and her equipment the same thing?

Well, if the hands are part of the bat, why not?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Well, if the hands are part of the bat, why not?

To quote Sir Charles: Frank Caliendo - Charles Barkley Impersonation - YouTube

MTD, Sr.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by robbie

Not arguing with the result of your post at all, but the batter does become a batter runner upon the 3rd strike not being caught.

Well, guess I should clarify too - That is the case in NSA - the only code I call.

OP was NCAA ruleset, ditto the citations in my reply.

Interestingly though, in 11.14.3 (Dropped Third-Strike Rule) they refer to the offensive player as...,"the batter being entitled to attempt first base on a dropped third strike....." yet when you read the EFFECT for 11.14.3 it refers to the batter runner.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

Hmmmm...the way that I read 12.4.13 is consistant with the ruling I would make in ASA or HS...dead ball, B/R out for interfering with a D3K.

She had already made her initial swing, right handed batter, her dugout was on the first base side, she had just recognized the D3K, started taking her first steps toward first, and was going to release her bat toward her dugout. She was holding the bat in her right hand and it was moving pointed down toward the ground and contacted the ball. In my judgement, there was no intent to knock the ball away, but it did prevent the catcher from getting to the ball to make a play.

I was BU, the whole thing happened in front of me...I don't think my partner saw the entire thing since it all happened almost right under his feet.

We allowed the B/R to remain at first....I think we probably blew this one.....

No, I don't think you did Andy. Based on what you said above, and in your OP. Following 11.15.4, in your judgement the action was not intentional. B/R is now R1.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

No, I don't think you did Andy. Based on what you said above, and in your OP. Following 11.15.4, in your judgement the action was not intentional. B/R is now R1.

This is where I was trying to get with my mentions that the other rule does not apply. No one followed me! Rule 12.4.13, as quoted, refers to the Batter Runner - not her equipment, and doesn't apply here. 11.15.4 is the right cite, and BR is NOT out.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Wow! Four minute response! That's quicker than applying for a doorway in Seattle!

That's because I like Andy. Had to wait a few days to reply to you, tho.