Dropped Strike 2, ASA Rule Book

[umpire george]

Dropped Strike 2, ASA Rule Book
No outs, No one on base.
Count of 3 balls 1 strike on batter.
On next pitch, batter swings at and missed pitch which hits dirt in front of plate. Catcher catches pitch cleanly.
Batter believes this is a dropped 3rd srtike and runs to 1st. base.
F2 throws ball to F3.
Do we award ball 4 to batter because the catcher did not throw the ball directly back to the pitcher?
If we do not award ball 4, what rule do we tell OC was used to put batter back in BB to complete her at bat?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpire george

Dropped Strike 2, ASA Rule Book
No outs, No one on base.
Count of 3 balls 1 strike on batter.
On next pitch, batter swings at and missed pitch which hits dirt in front of plate. Catcher catches pitch cleanly.
Batter believes this is a dropped 3rd srtike and runs to 1st. base.
F2 throws ball to F3.
Do we award ball 4 to batter because the catcher did not throw the ball directly back to the pitcher?
If we do not award ball 4, what rule do we tell OC was used to put batter back in BB to complete her at bat?

No rule necessary. Coach - that was only strike 2. Batter will come back to the box. F3 will throw to pitcher. Play on. Don't make it difficult if it's not difficult.

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

No rule necessary. Coach - that was only strike 2. Batter will come back to the box. F3 will throw to pitcher. Play on. Don't make it difficult if it's not difficult.

I have been to four Umpire schools & they all say the same thing "Do not over Officiate". Similar play dropped third strike with a runner on First. Runner takes off & everyone in the Stadium yells "run" to the BR, then the catcher throws the ball to F3 she drops the ball & the ball goes into dead ball area. Simply state the batter is out to the OC. If you get into a rule interpretation on some of these plays you might say something that can be used against you later in that game or in the season. Also adding to NCASAUMP I now have spell check.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

I have been to four Umpire schools & they all say the same thing "Do not over Officiate". Similar play dropped third strike with a runner on First. Runner takes off & everyone in the Stadium yells "run" to the BR, then the catcher throws the ball to F3 she drops the ball & the ball goes into dead ball area. Simply state the batter is out to the OC

After awarding R1 her base, I hope!

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

After awarding R1 her base, I hope!

At the TOP 1B was occupied. less than 2 outs.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

At the TOP 1B was occupied. less than 2 outs.

Correct....you have a thrown ball that went out of play...what are you going to do with R1?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

At the TOP 1B was occupied. less than 2 outs.

Your point?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by umpire george

Dropped Strike 2, ASA Rule Book
No outs, No one on base.
Count of 3 balls 1 strike on batter.
On next pitch, batter swings at and missed pitch which hits dirt in front of plate. Catcher catches pitch cleanly.
Batter believes this is a dropped 3rd srtike and runs to 1st. base.
F2 throws ball to F3.
Do we award ball 4 to batter because the catcher did not throw the ball directly back to the pitcher?
If we do not award ball 4, what rule do we tell OC was used to put batter back in BB to complete her at bat?

I'd probably have an ejection before I'd start quoting the rule book to "correct" the situation.

Based upon actual rules, I would cite 6-7-B. "The catcher shall return the ball directly to the pitcher after each pitch, except after a strikeout, a put out or an attempted put out made by the catcher.

While the put out wasn't actually possible, it was "attempted." Plus, if the batter thought it was a strikeout, who could fault the catcher?

With that said, "We're playing ball coach. Get back in the dugout" should resolve the issue without any need for references.

[umpire george]

The OC requests an explanation on why not ball 4.
Other than the reasons given above, which as of right now are pretty much opinion, is there anything in the ASA rule book that would confirm it is indeed not ball 4?

[EsqUmp]

Based upon actual rules, I would cite 6-7-B. "The catcher shall return the ball directly to the pitcher after each pitch, except after a strikeout, a put out or an attempted put out made by the catcher.

While the put out wasn't actually possible, it was "attempted."

[BretMan]

Sometimes, basing a ruling on the "spirit and intent" of a rule can be a slippery slope. We weren't there when the rule was written and we didn't speak to the people that wrote it. How certain can we be that we truly know the "intent" of the authors?

But on this one, I'd be confident that neither the spirit nor the intent of the rule was broken. The catcher not returning the ball directly to the pitcher is, I believe, intended to prevent unecessary delays in the game. The catcher wasn't delaying the game- the batter was by running when she shouldn't have!

Calling a ball here would be on overly officious technicality. But if you really want to get technical...

There is a list of times when a batter may leave the batter's box between pitches. If she leaves when not entitled to, the umpire may issue a penalty strike. Yes, one of the exceptions when a batter may leave the box between pitches is "on a swing".

But running all the way down to first base is not, in itself, "a swing"! It is a separate action and one not exempted from the "penalty strike" rule. The rule says that the umpire may rule a strike if the batter delays the game for any other reason than one of the listed exemptions.

Tell the coach that you accessed the penalty strike before the catcher threw the ball, so his batter was already out.

Is that technical enough for ya?

(Disclaimer: The above is not an official interpretation published by any sanctioning body I'm aware of.)

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by Andy

Correct....you have a thrown ball that went out of play...what are you going to do with R1?

I was excited that I could get in on a discussion that I forgot about R1, of coarse she would get her dead ball award. I was all excited about the BR. It is going to take a while but I am not giving up.

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Your point?

My point was do not Over Officiate or be a Jerk. "OOJ" Trying hard to fit in.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpire george

The OC requests an explanation on why not ball 4.
Other than the reasons given above, which as of right now are pretty much opinion, is there anything in the ASA rule book that would confirm it is indeed not ball 4?

Tell Jimpiano we said hey. You've already been answered.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

My point was do not Over Officiate or be a Jerk. "OOJ" Trying hard to fit in.

It is not overofficious to award R1 a base when the ball goes out of play, depriving said runner of the ability to advance when the ball is thrown away.