Fly Ball Coverage SNAFU

[SRW]

Originally Posted by BretMan

We have a runner on second, one out, base umpire is in "C". Batter hits a sinking line drive to straightaway center. F8 comes running in to try a shoestring catch.

I get into the infield just short of the pitcher's plate. Base umpire just stands there in "C", watching the ball...like he's been doing the entire game.

Where could you have gone to get a better view of this catch/no-catch?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by SRW

Where could you have gone to get a better view of this catch/no-catch?

Maybe off to the side more, to get a little more of a "cross view" instead of being straight on. As it was, I was about even with the left side of the pitcher's circle and maybe 3/4 of the way to the pitcher's plate. That's about as far as I could get before I had to get set to make the call.

Our UIC was out in the right field corner...much farther away, but he had an almost 90 degree angle across the path of the ball and the path of the fielder. He said that he had a catch on the play...and also felt that it was tough to get a better angle when coming out from behind the plate.

Anyhow...we survived this game and made it to the next day. The next day I'm scheduled to work with a very experienced umpire who has done college ball, whom I have never worked with before. We are doing our pre-game and the subject of fly ball coverage comes up.

This is when he tells me that (in two-man) an umpire should NEVER go out on a fly ball unless he has started in the "A" position.

I questioned that. I said that as a practical matter, you might want to avoid going out if you're in "B" or "C", but that it is a permissible mechanic.

He was adamant that "our umpire manual (ASA) says to NEVER go out from "B" or "C".

Not wanting to get off on the wrong foot, I told him that I would not go out from those positions today...but that we both should probably double check our umpire manuals after our games were finished.

[KJUmp]

You mentioned that he said he does college.
Did he skip over Pg.266 of the Manual that addresses the proper coverage in the two man system when the BU chases from B or C?

From you first game...I agree that the shoestring catch by F8 coming straight in is one of the toughest calls for the PU to get an angle on and to see clearly.

[BretMan]

We were doing an ASA game, so I would hope that any discusion of "our" umpire manual would be about the ASA manual.

When I said that I didn't think he was right, he immediately dug in his heels and stated again that "it's in our umpire manual". Then he told me that I'd better check with "Kathy" (not her real name), our local UIC...as if dropping her name somehow made him more correct.

I could see this was going downhill fast, so I dropped it and just told him I wouldn't go out from "B" or "C". Then I smiled and changed the subject to our coverages at third base...

[NCASAUmp]

Didn't ASA's own video show the BU go out from B?

I once had a UIC tell me I should never be any closer than 18 feet on ANY call, PERIOD. That included tag plays. He was adamant that it was in the Umpire Manual.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Didn't ASA's own video show the BU go out from B?

I once had a UIC tell me I should never be any closer than 18 feet on ANY call, PERIOD. That included tag plays. He was adamant that it was in the Umpire Manual.

We all know that's not in the manual... but it's not a horrible bit of advice. Angle is more important than distance, and TOO close can often be a problem. 6 yards is really not that far from a play and lets you see everything (most of the time). Closer and you're cutting down on periphery --- not always bad, but often bad.

That said ... I think PU would have to move backward without looking to reach 18 feet on the typical PB/play at the plate - not something I'd think a UIC should be advocating!

PS ... ANY call? Hope he calls his balls and strikes from less than 18 feet away!!!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

We all know that's not in the manual... but it's not a horrible bit of advice. Angle is more important than distance, and TOO close can often be a problem. 6 yards is really not that far from a play and lets you see everything (most of the time). Closer and you're cutting down on periphery --- not always bad, but often bad.

That said ... I think PU would have to move backward without looking to reach 18 feet on the typical PB/play at the plate - not something I'd think a UIC should be advocating!

PS ... ANY call? Hope he calls his balls and strikes from less than 18 feet away!!!

It's not terrible advice, but claiming that 18' on tag plays is found in the manual? No, it's not.

I'll put it in more specific context. He asked me how far away I should be on a play. I asked, "tag or force?" He said, "doesn't matter." I responded, "well, the book says 10-12 feet on a tag, and 18-21 feet on a force."

He said, "no, the book says no less than 18' feet on all plays."

I understand if that's his perspective, and from that moment on, that's exactly what I gave him for the rest of the tourney. But claiming that the book backs him up? No. Not good.

Coincidentally, I was the second person to whom he'd asked that question, and I was the second person who gave the exact same answer. That should have told him something.