Fly Ball Coverage SNAFU

[BretMan]

I got another newsflash from an expert umpire last weekend...

He and I were the base umpires in a three-man crew for the championship game on Sunday. As U1, whenever he counter-rotated off the line he came all the way around to the "C" position.

When I mentioned to him that he really only needed to be in "B", he went into a longwinded explanation of how he had worked college games the day before and that was the "new" mechanic they were using.

Then he dazzled me with his insight about the new college "delayed dead ball for leaving early rule" and how they work "the rim/outside the diamond"...and how ASA would be adopting both of these next year!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Then he dazzled me with his insight about the new college "delayed dead ball for leaving early rule" and how they work "the rim/outside the diamond"...and how ASA would be adopting both of these next year!

Sounds like he was wrong a lot. But he might be right on the rim in specific situations - I had an assignor / UIC tell me the same regarding 2-man mechanics on a steal of 2nd, especially one that is not drawing a throw.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sounds like he was wrong a lot. But he might be right on the rim in specific situations - I had an assignor / UIC tell me the same regarding 2-man mechanics on a steal of 2nd, especially one that is not drawing a throw.

Mike - I'm confused On a steal of second, you already stay outside the diamond and move parrallel with the runner to make the call at second.

I had some conversations with some vey upper level people in ASA this past summer that have led me to believe it will be a looooong time, if ever, that ASA will adopt the working outside mechanic for BUs. Just my opinion, I have zero inside knowledge.....

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by BretMan

At a clinic last year, one of the instructors chided me because when I was in the "A" position and walking the line, I took two steps instead of one. He actually made a big deal out of it, stopping the drill we were doing and pulling me aside so that he could show everyone "the right way".

At another clinic, we were doing plate work. I set up with my eyes at the top of the strike zone. One instructor told me that I was setting up too low. Later that day, another instructor told me I was setting up too high!

ive never understood the whole walking the line concept

from pg 246 of the 2011 ump manual

"walk the line by taking one or two steps toward home plate, pushing off with your left foot to move off the foul line when the ball is batted"

for groundballs to an IFer, why do i have to walk 1-2 steps down the line then move into position to make the call at 1B? why not just move into position right away?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by jr131981

ive never understood the whole walking the line concept.

I believe that the idea is for the umpire to have a little momentum built up, making it easier, or quicker, to move into whatever position you might need to move into depending on where the ball is hit.

Maybe that seems a little redundant on a routine infield ground ball. But before the ball is hit you don't know it's going to be a ground ball! It could very well be a fly ball to the outfield where you're going to be pivoting inside. So it would be impossible to make "walking the line" situational- because you don't know what the situation will be.

Personally, I don't have a problem getting to where I need to be from a set position. Of course, when working games where that is the mechanic, I do it. If there is any advantage for me at all, it does seem to get me into rythym and that might help my mental focus a little bit, compared to just standing in one spot.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

I had some conversations with some vey upper level people in ASA this past summer that have led me to believe it will be a looooong time, if ever, that ASA will adopt the working outside mechanic for BUs. Just my opinion, I have zero inside knowledge.....

That loooooong time is (at least) as long as the term of the incumbent Supervisor. Not going to happen during his regime.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

Mike - I'm confused On a steal of second, you already stay outside the diamond and move parrallel with the runner to make the call at second.

I had some conversations with some vey upper level people in ASA this past summer that have led me to believe it will be a looooong time, if ever, that ASA will adopt the working outside mechanic for BUs. Just my opinion, I have zero inside knowledge.....

Sure... but what do you do when it's a SB/PB and there's going to be no play at 2nd, but possibly a play at 3rd. I've seen both inside and outside approaches at clinics, and I'd say most I've seen teach inside - whereas I prefer outside. I'm told outside (rimming) might become more preferred ... who knows if what I'm told is right though.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sure... but what do you do when it's a SB/PB and there's going to be no play at 2nd, but possibly a play at 3rd. I've seen both inside and outside approaches at clinics, and I'd say most I've seen teach inside - whereas I prefer outside. I'm told outside (rimming) might become more preferred ... who knows if what I'm told is right though.

In my opinion (with admittedly VERY little experience), this should be the plate umpire's call at 3rd. If the BU is set up outside of the diamond and 10-12 feet back, they've got very little chance of getting to 3B and getting set to make a tight call, especially on a fast runner with a quick defense.

Anytime I've got runners actively running the bases, my mask comes off and I move away from behind the catcher, even if it's just a single runner stealing 2nd. In the case of a runner stealing 2nd (and not a D3K situation), or even a ball 4 situation, I do move up a the 3B line a little and watch the play. There's no reason for me to park my butt behind home plate.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In my opinion (with admittedly VERY little experience), this should be the plate umpire's call at 3rd.

with no other runners, I agree with you - although I normally pregame this.

If the BU is set up outside of the diamond and 10-12 feet back, they've got very little chance of getting to 3B and getting set to make a tight call, especially on a fast runner with a quick defense.

Anytime I've got runners actively running the bases, my mask comes off and I move away from behind the catcher, even if it's just a single runner stealing 2nd. In the case of a runner stealing 2nd (and not a D3K situation), or even a ball 4 situation, I do move up a the 3B line a little and watch the play. There's no reason for me to park my butt behind home plate.[/QUOTE]With no one on, I agree. However, R1 on third, and you're coming around waiting for the PB to be played to F2 - BU is all alone out there with the other runner.

Also - this is one of the items we discuss at pre-game, especially when working 5 or 6 games or in 100 degrees.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

with no other runners, I agree with you - although I normally pregame this.

Well, with multiple runners, the BU is going to be in C anyway, so they can usually cover someone stealing 2B or 3B. So I guess my question is... Why shouldn't this be the PU's call at 3B with a runner stealing from 1B to 2B and subsequently to 3B?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jr131981

ive never understood the whole walking the line concept

from pg 246 of the 2011 ump manual

"walk the line by taking one or two steps toward home plate, pushing off with your left foot to move off the foul line when the ball is batted"

for groundballs to an IFer, why do i have to walk 1-2 steps down the line then move into position to make the call at 1B? why not just move into position right away?

You walk the line to stay up on the balls of your feet and already in motion when it comes time to move to your position.

Please note that "walking" the line only includes a very short step or two. Don't over read into this, it helps you stay on your toes.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You walk the line to stay up on the balls of your feet and already in motion when it comes time to move to your position.

Please note that "walking" the line only includes a very short step or two. Don't over read into this, it helps you stay on your toes.

Not to mention that it gives the appearance of "being in the game."

[Dakota]

I liked that song...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, with multiple runners, the BU is going to be in C anyway, so they can usually cover someone stealing 2B or 3B. So I guess my question is... Why shouldn't this be the PU's call at 3B with a runner stealing from 1B to 2B and subsequently to 3B?

LOL... good call.

Perhaps around here it's not always PU's call because with 5-6 games and 100 degrees we try to limit our PU's having to run around in the gear where possible.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

LOL... good call.

Perhaps around here it's not always PU's call because with 5-6 games and 100 degrees we try to limit our PU's having to run around in the gear where possible.

While the default coverage is the lone runner belongs to the base umpire, the standard expectation is that PU will call off BU with "I've got 3rd!!" any time possible. It isn't default to PU because PU must also be sure to clear the catcher and not interfere with the play, which isn't always possible in a timely manner.