Nfhs cr snafu

[JEL]

Easiest is to cut and paste the e-mail----This is how it went;

>>>At the top of the 5th inning, the visiting team substituted for the catcher and she reached base. A courtesy runner took her place on base. At the bottom of the inning, the home coach pointed out that she didn’t think this was allowed since the player was not the catcher. I mistakenly told her that since she had been entered as a substitute in the catcher’s position the courtesy runner could run for her. Since the point was not raised while the courtesy runner was still on base it was a moot point and hopefully I would have checked with my partner, but I was wrong on this one. Rule 8-9 Articles 1 and 2 state that “The team at bat may use a courtesy runner for the pitcher and/or catcher at any time…In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the lineup as the pitcher and catcher…thereafter, the pitcher and catcher are identified as the last players who physically played that position on defense.”<<<


Of course preventive umpiring would (should) have caught this, but what if any recourse or penalty could be applied when the home questioned this?

Would there be an un-reported sub somewhere? Did the (improper) CR become a sub once she took first base? If the new catcher comes in on defense is she now an unreported sub? (if CR becomes sub).

OR, Do you just tell the home coach it is to late to fix, you should have told me sooner?

[RadioBlue]

2-57-3 states that a player who violates the CR rule is an illegal substitute. Rule 3-4 will be your guide for determining what penalties should apply.

Of course preventive umpiring would (should) have caught this, but what if any recourse or penalty could be applied when the home questioned this?

While it's a little unclear in your OP, it appears the VC put her at 1B as a CR. Your right in saying the home team was too late in bringing this to your attention. Had they said something while the runner was on base, the CR is an illegal sub and is restricted for the remainder of the game. (3-4-1c)

Would there be an un-reported sub somewhere?

No. The VC put her out there as the CR. Of course preventative umpiring dictates if we as umpires know a player can't CR for the "new" catcher, we prevent it. But you can't "retroactively" determine she was actually a sub.

Did the (improper) CR become a sub once she took first base? If the new catcher comes in on defense is she now an unreported sub? (if CR becomes sub).

No. See above.

Do you just tell the home coach it is to late to fix, you should have told me sooner?

Yep.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

2-57-3 states that a player who violates the CR rule is an illegal substitute. Rule 3-4 will be your guide for determining what penalties should apply.

While it's a little unclear in your OP, it appears the VC put her at 1B as a CR. Your right in saying the home team was too late in bringing this to your attention. Had they said something while the runner was on base, the CR is an illegal sub and is restricted for the remainder of the game. (3-4-1c)


No. The VC put her out there as the CR. Of course preventative umpiring dictates if we as umpires know a player can't CR for the "new" catcher, we prevent it. But you can't "retroactively" determine she was actually a sub.


No. See above.

Yep.

If the player mistakenly called a CR was put on base, isn't she then simply a substitute? When she was replaced with the originaly starter, wasn't this just simply an unreported substitute?
Have to admit, I'm not near a book, but I thought the violating CR statement refers to using a player not eligible to be a CR (such as a different player currently in the game or a sub who has already been in the game)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

If the player mistakenly called a CR was put on base, isn't she then simply a substitute? When she was replaced with the originaly starter, wasn't this just simply an unreported substitute?
Have to admit, I'm not near a book, but I thought the violating CR statement refers to using a player not eligible to be a CR (such as a different player currently in the game or a sub who has already been in the game)

Or any other violation of the rule.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Or any other violation of the rule.

Care to expand?

Of course preventive umpiring would (should) have caught this,
So really this would not have happend in either of our games ;-)


I'm still not sure that this is an illegal player situation or an unannounced substitution (actually 2) since (I am assuming) that the player who came in to run was an eligible substitute.
So when she came in, she was not a CR, but a sub... (would you call that the 1st unreported??) and when the next 1/2 inning came in and the other player re-entered, she was an unreported sub....

Without further guidance, that's my ruling on the field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Assuming the coach told the umpire about the CR, it isn't unreported, it just wasn't reported properly