Two situations

[SamG]

NSA rule set, 2 umpire mechanics.

1) R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd. Batter hits up to the gap between Left & Center field. Runners score, BR ends on 3rd. DC calls time, asks PU if he watched BR rounding 1st. PU says no. DC asks BU if he watched BR rounding 1st, BU says no. DC said he wanted to appeal B/R missing 1st base but since neither umpire was watching, he knew he couldn't. So who was responsible? PU said he was watching R1.

2) Bases loaded. 1 out. Pop up just outside the circle. F4 runs up and tries to catch the ball but is unsuccessful. That forces the runners and F4 makes the throw to F2 for an out. DC asks why IF wasn't called. Umpires say IF is only for 'routine' pop flies. True or False?

[derwil]

I'll take a shot:

In situation 1, you show one of the limitations of 2 man mechanics. While the BU is responsible for the touching of first, the were probably trying to get out of the way of the SS and/ or runner at second. The reality is that it is a stretch to see that play on first even if the BU was looking specifically for it due to the distance on the play. Bottom line is that it is the BU call but they won't can't make it the MAJORITY of the time. Even if they did make it, I believe it is a timing play and the runs still score........

Situation 2 - IF is for balls that can be caught with "normal effort", i.e. can of corn. If a defensive player can get under it for a split second you got an IF. If they "run up" to it as you have written, it's probably does not meet the definition of "normal effort" and should not have been called an IF. Since the defence only got the one out, I'm guessing this was a good call.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by derwil

I'll take a shot:

In situation 1, you show one of the limitations of 2 man mechanics. While the BU is responsible for the touching of first, the were probably trying to get out of the way of the SS and/ or runner at second. The reality is that it is a stretch to see that play on first even if the BU was looking specifically for it due to the distance on the play. Bottom line is that it is the BU call but they won't can't make it the MAJORITY of the time. Even if they did make it, I believe it is a timing play and the runs still score........

Situation 2 - IF is for balls that can be caught with "normal effort", i.e. can of corn. If a defensive player can get under it for a split second you got an IF. If they "run up" to it as you have written, it's probably does not meet the definition of "normal effort" and should not have been called an IF. Since the defence only got the one out, I'm guessing this was a good call.

Pretty good job of taking "a shot."

[SamG]

Thanks guys!

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by derwil

I'll take a shot:

In situation 1, you show one of the limitations of 2 man mechanics. While the BU is responsible for the touching of first, the were probably trying to get out of the way of the SS and/ or runner at second. The reality is that it is a stretch to see that play on first even if the BU was looking specifically for it due to the distance on the play. Bottom line is that it is the BU call but they won't can't make it the MAJORITY of the time. Even if they did make it, I believe it is a timing play and the runs still score........

I don't have an NSA rulebook any longer but most other rulesets, the runs would not score if the appeal was upheld that the batter missed first.

Rita

[PSUchem]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I don't have an NSA rulebook any longer but most other rulesets, the runs would not score if the appeal was upheld that the batter missed first.

Rita

^This. The batter runner missed a base to which he/she was forced. Therefore it is treated as a force out. No runs score.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

^This. The batter runner missed a base to which he/she was forced. Therefore it is treated as a force out. No runs score.

The intent is there, but technically this is not a force play. Yes, if the BR is put out prior to reaching 1B, "no run shall score," even on appeal.

[MD Longhorn]

Love how we're negating the runs without having any clue how many outs there were.

On a side note, if a coach asks you if you were watching a base, he should be asked to head back to the dugout. By no means do you answer this question. They can appeal, or not appeal. Then you rule.