Ejected fan

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If it's a safety issue or out of bounds (according to your standard), have the coach address it. It's NEVER a good idea to eject a fan directly. Let coach (or possibly TD / game admin) deal with it.

I think maybe Cecil was suggesting that as a 3rd situation where the umpire would stop the game and notify site management (adding to MTD Sr.'s 2 situations).

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I think maybe Cecil was suggesting that as a 3rd situation where the umpire would stop the game and notify site management (adding to MTD Sr.'s 2 situations).

Correct!
Sorry if I confused you Mike by my often cryptic posts. As mioost knoe I can't ype wll, so I avoid ut.

And of course, always via the site management. A lesson learned long ago.

[justcallmeblue]

I had a small SPECTATOR issue in a 12U game the other night

Game was a tight one. I had warned the 3B coach that the runner on 2B was leaving too early in the 3rd inning. . .he asks "how can you see that". . .and I said "Simple, when I can see the entire body of the runner on second BEFORE the pitch is released, she is leaving early." NO COMPLAINTS!!

Fast forward 2 innings and the same girl is on 2B. This is in a bases loaded, game within 1 run, between the top 2 teams in the division. SHE LEAVES EARLY AGAIN!!! THe pitcher hadnt even started coming forward when I see the runners entire body moving towards 3rd. I step out and call her out. THE 3B COACH IS FUMING AND YAPPING AT ME, THE 1B COACH IS FUMING. . . .From the stands I hear

"Thats F*&^ing ridiculous, I have umpired professionally for 20 years and I havent seen such a F(*&ing bulls*&^ call in my life." At this time I am walking over the HC to warn him about the spectator when I hear "They've been doing it too the whole f*&^ing night, call it both ways!"

Since I was at the fence where the spectator was, I veered from the coach, gave him a warning, walked over the Spectator and gave him a warning.

Then I hear "Hey BLUE, why did I get the warning, we dont even know who this guy is!!"

Order was restored, the spectator backed off. I come to find he is a local guy who comes to watch games and has had police escorts out of the complex numerous times in the years past. . . .

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

I had a small SPECTATOR issue in a 12U game the other night

Game was a tight one. I had warned the 3B coach that the runner on 2B was leaving too early in the 3rd inning. . .he asks "how can you see that". . .and I said "Simple, when I can see the entire body of the runner on second BEFORE the pitch is released, she is leaving early." NO COMPLAINTS!!

Fast forward 2 innings and the same girl is on 2B. This is in a bases loaded, game within 1 run, between the top 2 teams in the division. SHE LEAVES EARLY AGAIN!!! THe pitcher hadnt even started coming forward when I see the runners entire body moving towards 3rd. I step out and call her out. THE 3B COACH IS FUMING AND YAPPING AT ME, THE 1B COACH IS FUMING. . . .From the stands I hear

"Thats F*&^ing ridiculous, I have umpired professionally for 20 years and I havent seen such a F(*&ing bulls*&^ call in my life." At this time I am walking over the HC to warn him about the spectator when I hear "They've been doing it too the whole f*&^ing night, call it both ways!"

Since I was at the fence where the spectator was, I veered from the coach, gave him a warning, walked over the Spectator and gave him a warning.

Then I hear "Hey BLUE, why did I get the warning, we dont even know who this guy is!!"

Order was restored, the spectator backed off. I come to find he is a local guy who comes to watch games and has had police escorts out of the complex numerous times in the years past. . . .

My two cents: First, don't talk to spectators. Period.

Second, don't "warn" the coaches. Period. If she is leaving early then call it. If it was happening in the third inning, then call it in the third inning. Don't warn and then two innings later call it.

Third, If there were bases loaded in a tight game, and she was leaving early all game, why wasn't she called out before reaching second base? And how come your partner didn't call her out when she was at first, assuming she was there prior to her being on second, and assuming she was leaving early?

Fourth, don't go looking for trouble....it finds you anyway. Bases loaded, I want to make sure the girl on third isn't leaving early. The girl on second isn't going far with a runner ahead of her.

Again, if she was leaving early, then call it. I'm just tossing my two cents over how you managed the game and these situations. It reads like you were stirring the pot a bit and then were surprised at the backlash you received.

[justcallmeblue]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

My two cents: First, don't talk to spectators. Period.

Second, don't "warn" the coaches. Period. If she is leaving early then call it. If it was happening in the third inning, then call it in the third inning. Don't warn and then two innings later call it.

Third, If there were bases loaded in a tight game, and she was leaving early all game, why wasn't she called out before reaching second base? And how come your partner didn't call her out when she was at first, assuming she was there prior to her being on second, and assuming she was leaving early?

Fourth, don't go looking for trouble....it finds you anyway. Bases loaded, I want to make sure the girl on third isn't leaving early. The girl on second isn't going far with a runner ahead of her.

Again, if she was leaving early, then call it. I'm just tossing my two cents over how you managed the game and these situations. It reads like you were stirring the pot a bit and then were surprised at the backlash you received.

Thanks for the input - and I never take posts personally. . just need to clarify your assumptions

R1 reached on single, R2 reached on double, R1 to third, R3 HBP. That's how the bases became loaded in the 5th (dont recall the 3rd inning)

1) League rules state the first time a runner leaves early, it is a warning. . .anything after is an out.
2) I never said she was leaving early "ALL GAME" We can assume she did, but 2nd is where I caught her - (twice)
3) I had no partner
4) 2nd base is the most obvious to see an early lead - period!

Just wondering how I stirred the pot? By enforcing a rule? By talking to a spectator who would have kept on going like the energizer bunny if I hadn't warned him with an ejection?

Where, in my post do you think I was "surprised" to hear the backlash - I expect to hear backlash when I make tough/unpopular calls.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Thanks for the input - and I never take posts personally. . just need to clarify your assumptions

R1 reached on single, R2 reached on double, R1 to third, R3 HBP. That's how the bases became loaded in the 5th (dont recall the 3rd inning)

1) League rules state the first time a runner leaves early, it is a warning. . .anything after is an out.
2) I never said she was leaving early "ALL GAME" We can assume she did, but 2nd is where I caught her - (twice)
3) I had no partner
4) 2nd base is the most obvious to see an early lead - period!

Just wondering how I stirred the pot? By enforcing a rule? By talking to a spectator who would have kept on going like the energizer bunny if I hadn't warned him with an ejection?

Where, in my post do you think I was "surprised" to hear the backlash - I expect to hear backlash when I make tough/unpopular calls.

That spectator didn't deserve a warning. He needed to go ... PRONTO!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

ASA does not give the umpire the authority to eject anyone other than a game participant (team member).

Don't care about the fans. If it is bad enough that it affects the game, the coaches can deal with it. If they refuse to handle it, then we just stop playing.

Neither do any other rules.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Thanks for the input - and I never take posts personally. . just need to clarify your assumptions

R1 reached on single, R2 reached on double, R1 to third, R3 HBP. That's how the bases became loaded in the 5th (dont recall the 3rd inning)

1) League rules state the first time a runner leaves early, it is a warning. . .anything after is an out.
2) I never said she was leaving early "ALL GAME" We can assume she did, but 2nd is where I caught her - (twice)
3) I had no partner
4) 2nd base is the most obvious to see an early lead - period!

I can certainly understand and appreciate the position you're in on this call. If the league rules state she gets a warning, then whether we like it or not, she gets the warning.

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Just wondering how I stirred the pot? By enforcing a rule? By talking to a spectator who would have kept on going like the energizer bunny if I hadn't warned him with an ejection?

Where, in my post do you think I was "surprised" to hear the backlash - I expect to hear backlash when I make tough/unpopular calls.

In my opinion, the better way to handle it is to never, ever talk to the spectators. Nothing good ever comes of it. If there's an issue, find a coach and have them deal with it. If the spectator is that bad and has no affiliation with either team, then have one (or even BOTH) coaches handle getting this guy outta there. Hold up play until the guy is gone, and if he won't leave on his own, let 911 handle it. 99 times out of 100, he'll be long gone before the police arrive.

But addressing the spectators is almost guaranteed to stir the pot. They LOVE going after us umpires, and the moment you show any sign of being affected by even one of them, the rest of them will be all over you. It ain't worth it.

[CecilOne]

LL Seniors Div. End of inning, outfielder walking slowly to dugout, no one from other team on field yet. BU tells OF to hurry up. OF says ok, doesn't move much faster. BU ejects OF player for not hurrying, "I want you out of here, gone, pack up and get out of the dugout".
No word to coach who finally finds out why the ejection. Player's parent is told why by coach. Player and parents leave in a huff. Passing the 1st bas fence on the way out, the parent claps and chants something (non-profane) about the umpire hustling. Parent is then banned from attending the next game.

Wasn't there, but I think a reliable report. Ump has been umpiring many years, and oh, is President of the league.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Ump has been umpiring many years, and oh, is President of the league.

No conflict of interest there, huh?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Wasn't there, but I think a reliable report. Ump has been umpiring many years, and oh, is President of the league.

Based on my experience, I think there's a HIGHER probability of the report being inaccurate coming from the President of the League. This is an AWFUL combination. Coach/Umpire is bad. Coach/Board is bad... Umpire/Pres is awful. Granted, I don't know this particular individual and could be wrong... but defending his integrity by telling us he's the Pres is really doing exactly the opposite.

That aside - sounds like a power-hungry umpire with a chip on his shoulder who needed to flex his muscles. Since when do we, as umpires, give a flip about how fast a player leaves the field. Unless someone's out there looking for a fight, I see no reason to even address this.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Based on my experience, I think there's a HIGHER probability of the report being inaccurate coming from the President of the League. This is an AWFUL combination. Coach/Umpire is bad. Coach/Board is bad... Umpire/Pres is awful. Granted, I don't know this particular individual and could be wrong... but defending his integrity by telling us he's the Pres is really doing exactly the opposite.

That aside - sounds like a power-hungry umpire with a chip on his shoulder who needed to flex his muscles. Since when do we, as umpires, give a flip about how fast a player leaves the field. Unless someone's out there looking for a fight, I see no reason to even address this.

Sorry, if my usual "crypticness" confused. The paragraph "Wasn't there, but I think a reliable report. Ump has been umpiring many years, and oh, is President of the league. " is about two different people. The first a spectator who told me, the second the calling umpire.