Ref Ejected

[gostars]

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/spt/...ial.2b364.html

Who makes this decision? Anyone seen this happen? Thoughts?

[Mark Dexter]

My guess is that it depends on the assignor.

If the officials contract with the schools, the school possibly has the right to fire them on the spot.

If through an association, who knows?

[KingTripleJump]

We don't contract here in Texas. I read that article as soon as I got home tonight from our Chapter Meeting. The ironic thing was this very thing, ref's not keeping their mouths shut, was the #1 thing on the list for discussion from the board.

I'd say this guy got exactly what he deserved.

[Hawks Coach]

don't talk to fans, don't talk to fans, don't . . .

[Rich]

Originally posted by KingTripleJump
We don't contract here in Texas. I read that article as soon as I got home tonight from our Chapter Meeting. The ironic thing was this very thing, ref's not keeping their mouths shut, was the #1 thing on the list for discussion from the board.

I'd say this guy got exactly what he deserved.

Where's the due process, though? What's to stop a home team from removing someone because they don't like his calls?

Slippery slope.

[JRutledge]

I have never heard of this. Not sure how this would be done. The officials are the authority of the game. If they do not do their job properly, I can see them not asked back. But not "ejected" from the game.

I am really confused how this can be done in the first place.

Peace

[TriggerMN]

I couldn't see this article without logging in as a user. Is there a direct link to the article, or could it be posted in the forum?

[Ref Daddy]

High school official ejected for profanity

02:37 PM CST on Wednesday, January 28, 2004


By SCOTT FARRELL / The Dallas Morning News



MESQUITE – The girls basketball game between Mesquite Poteet and Mesquite Horn was postponed after one official was ejected at halftime for directing a profane comment at fans.

Poteet (20-6, 7-1 District 12-4A) led, 22-10, with 4 seconds remaining in the half when referee Floyd Woods and some Poteet fans exchanged words. The fans were responding to an off-the-ball foul call, which gave Horn (14-6, 5-2) guard Ashley Crawford a bonus free throw.

Before the first free throw, Woods retorted to the crowd while standing in front of the Poteet stands. After the crowd's continued heckling, Woods responded again, this time with an expletive.

Crawford's second free throw missed and the first half expired. As the referees left the floor, Poteet administrators caught up to Woods and escorted him out of the gym.

A replacement could not be found, so Poteet officials suspended the game until Feb. 12.

[Hawks Coach]

Due process will certainly occur after the fact. As of now, nobody has had any action taken against them that cannot be undone. If the ref didn't get paid, he can get paid if he is found to be in the right. If the opposition was harmed by suspending the game (which I doubt since the home team had a sizable lead), the home team could be forced to forfeit if they are found to have acted in error. And the ref can still sue anybody he wants if he feels he was harmed by publicity surrounding this incident. So I do not believe that due process has been denied.

Game management had to make a decision and did. jrut, what you are suggesting occurred did not by any account here. If the AD didn't like the calls and so removed the ref, I am sure that follow-up review would handle this situation differently than one in which the ref popped off at the crowd. And even in this case, a review of events may find that the ref is not in the wrong. But game management felt they needed to act and did - they will be accountable for their actions.

But in an HS contest, if the ref displays unacceptable conduct, somebody has to be able to step in and remove him. This is obviously not the run of the mill situation, but I have no issue with this occurring here.

[Grail]

Due Process, what a concept. Simple facts; if ref is hired by the school, ref can be fired by the school. Whatever policies the school has in place for proper conduct by an outside contractor apply to the ref as well as to the electrician they hire to fix the wiring. Obviously someone in the school's management felt that this person had stepped over the line and decided to make a change.

While I agree that the ref has authority over the game, we all argue that game management is responsible for the facility, fans, etc.. I would also state that they probably could have issued a reprimand to this official, finished the game, and than if they were still upset, contact his assignor, if there is one, or work through the school to make sure this official did not return to the school.

Obviously the ultimate authority on the outcome of the game comes from the Texas High School Association. In any case, that part is not the officials' concern.

Grail

We as HS BB Oficials have all been in that exact situation. One should always ignore the crowd ( they know even less about the rules then the coaches). If there is one individual in the crowd who can be singled out, then the site administrator should be notified, and the malcontent should be removed. In CT we have Police Officers in every gym. I have on more than one occassion asked them to remove people from the gym ( mostly students, however, I have had parents removed too ). I have enough freinds in my personal life I don't need any more. I'm here to do a job to the best of my ability. I need my partner(s) to have my back, and that's it.

This guy got what he deserved because he didn't keep his head.

Earlier in the thread some said it all:

Don't interact with the crowd. This is HS BB, not the Harlem Globetrotters.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
jrut, what you are suggesting occurred did not by any account here. If the AD didn't like the calls and so removed the ref, I am sure that follow-up review would handle this situation differently than one in which the ref popped off at the crowd. And even in this case, a review of events may find that the ref is not in the wrong. But game management felt they needed to act and did - they will be accountable for their actions.

But in an HS contest, if the ref displays unacceptable conduct, somebody has to be able to step in and remove him. This is obviously not the run of the mill situation, but I have no issue with this occurring here.

What are you talking about? I am not suggesting anything. You cannot just throw out an official because of language alone. If you read the entire follow up, the folks in the know claim that this did not follow procedure. No administrators can just step in. If that is the case they can do that when they do not like the job you are doing. I could see if there was a fight with an official or that officials was attacked, but this is a he said, she said type situation. Whatever he said, he said and no administrator heard it apparantly. We like to talk about rules, where does the rules cover this. Because you cannot just dumb an official just because you do not like their behavior.

Peace

[DJ]

1. You should not say anything to the fans unless you are willing to take the risk that goes with it. Most administrators ignore obnoxious fans because they don't want the hassle even though this is where most of the problems originate. 2. In nearly 2000 games of officiating I've had confrontations after the game where someone was up front and personal(only once physical) 20 times and 18 out of the twenty have been mothers so I suggest staying away from a mother when you see her coming!! If you see her coming get the hell out of there because it is primordial instinct and they are defending the young!

[ChuckElias]

I have never been in anything even close to this situation, fortunately. But if I were, I think I would tell the administrator that I was assigned to the game, and I'm staying until the game is over, or until my partner and I decide that the game cannot be continued. So, if you want me to leave, fine, but the game is over. You forfeit. Otherwise, it's my court and my game for 32 minutes.

Additionally, s/he'll have to wipe my puke off his/her shoes when our conversation is over.

[Jimgolf]

Referee's alleged profanity creates a stir

Parents stunned by retort during game; officials will investigate


12:00 PM CST on Thursday, January 29, 2004


By DAVID McNABB / The Dallas Morning News



MESQUITE – Teresa Carey was back on the fourth row of the middle section of the Mesquite Poteet gym Wednesday night. She and other parents and fans of Poteet's girls basketball team still were buzzing about the profanity they say a referee directed at them during a game against Mesquite Horn on Tuesday.

"He turned around and said it very distinctly," said Carey, whose daughter, Triauna, plays for Poteet. "And all the little kids went, 'Oooohh.' "

Poteet fans then complained to an on-site school administrator, which in turn led to referee Floyd Woods being escorted from the gym and the game suspended at halftime until Wednesday.

Woods, a veteran referee who has called college games as well, did not return phone messages from The News, and on two separate visits by a News reporter, persons at Woods' home said he was not there.

Steve Mankin, supervisor for the Dallas Basketball Officials Association, said he was investigating the incident but couldn't comment.

Several Poteet parents repeated their story Wednesday that Woods turned toward the stands and used a profanity as a Horn player was set to shoot a free throw before halftime of Tuesday's game. The parents said there had been some yelling at the officials but nothing of a personal nature.

"He wasn't attacked," Carey said. "Nobody called him a name."

Said Velma Wommack, whose daughter, Jessica, plays for Poteet: "Everyone's jaw dropped. We all turned around to look at each other like, 'Did he just say that?' "

Mesquite school district officials issued a statement Wednesday confirming that the administrator – Poteet assistant principal David Medina – had acted on the parents' complaints of "inappropriate exchange between the game official, fans and students." The statement said the decision to dismiss the referee was to ensure the integrity of the game.

Medina said he couldn't comment because of school policy. Elvenn Richardson, Woods' referee partner Tuesday, said he couldn't comment because of DBOA rules.

The game resumed Wednesday with two new referees and was completed without incident. Poteet, which led 22-10 when the game was suspended, won, 46-24.

Mankin, the officials' supervisor, said because of the incident's unusual nature, he didn't know the exact process that would be followed. He said he'll interview and request written reports from all officials involved.

Several people connected with officiating and game management said incidents involving referees are typically handled differently.

Paul Galvan, a longtime official and former supervisor with the Southwest Conference who is now Fort Worth ISD athletic director, said Woods probably should not have been ejected.

Galvan said he believed the usual procedure would be for the school administrator to make a complaint to the Texas Association of Sporting Officials, of which every referee must be a member.

"They could have gone to the referee and said they don't want to hear any profanity," Galvan said, "and then make a report."

TASO assistant director Steven Ellinger said if a school administrator – routinely assigned to monitor games – doesn't hear something personally, "it might not be a good thing for fans to think they can go say this and get rid of the official."

Ellinger said if the security officers had intervened first, then it would have been a legal matter and out of the hands of school officials and referees. He said there have been complaints made against officials for inappropriate language in the past, and that TASO has the power to ban or suspend officials for such language.

Ellinger said it was basic TASO policy that officials shouldn't interact with fans. "It's just not a win situation," Ellinger said.

Longtime coaches and officials said it's the first time they had heard of a referee being ejected.

"I have heard officials and fans get into it," Duncanville boys basketball coach Phil McNeely said. "But I've never seen the official go."

Staff Writer Kate Hairopoulos contributed to this report.