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Mon May 24, 2004, 01:50pm
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After my rant last week about how we should ignore the fans, I finally had one push the right buttons, and I almost sent him home.
After ball one, batter gets out of, and back into the box. She's standing on the plate, with her other foot outside the box. Pitcher stops and approaches me, "Isn't she outside of the box?!?!?!" I remove my mask and glance at the coach (a good coach who I've worked with before often). Coach sees my expression and tells his pitcher to shut up. He knows I don't let the players talk to me like that. Pitcher then tells her coach the same thing. Coach requests time and from about 20 feet away asks me the same question. I say, "Probably - doesn't matter right now". Coach knows the rules, and was probably just asking me to appease his player. The pitcher is visibly upset, but as she takes her position on the mound, the player backs up and is set up properly. This girl was batter ten out of ten and did this every pitch. Walked up without paying attention, then looked down and backed up into the box. As she's pitching, I hear from behind me "Pretty bad when she knows the rules better than you blue." I ignore it. A few seconds later, louder, "I SAID it's PRETTY BAD when she knows the rule better than you, BLUE!" I ignore him. Another pitch, another time for the batter to step out, then to the plate, then back into the box, and then a few seconds later on a passed ball I'm looking slightly behind me, and I get, "This is G-d D--n ridiculous! This guy SUCKS! The girls know the rules better than he does! G-d D--n It, call it, Blue!" I think some of you would have tossed him. I thought about it, and almost did. If I didn't know the coach so well, I probably would have, and maybe should have anyway. Instead, I went to coach and said, so that only he could hear, "Coach - you shut him up or I will, and if I have to, you can walk him to the parking lot." Coach shut him up pretty quickly. Worst I've seen from a fan in a couple of years. [Edited by mcrowder on May 24th, 2004 at 03:52 PM] 
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Mon May 24, 2004, 02:41pm
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"He knows I don't let the players talk to me."
Are you an umpire, or an emperor? Or should I address you as, "Your Imperial (read 'imperious') Majesty". "Blue, I'm batting for number 29". "Don't talk to me, you insignificant twerp. I only let coaches talk to me. And then, only if they bow". You also have a bad case of rabbit ears, and a poor knowledge of your authority. An umpire may not eject a fan. You may stop the game, and tell the coach or game management to quiet the jerk or the game will not continue.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 02:52pm
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No, bluezebra, you have it entirely wrong. I've actually been told I'm TOO friendly during games. I'm definitely not "imperious".
And I'm usually the guy on here telling people they should ignore the fans. Most of you all here know that, which is why I thought you might appreciate the irony that one finally got my goat. I CERTAINLY don't have a bad case of rabbit ears, as this is the first time I ever even considered ejecting a fan in about 15 years. Oh, and yes ... even though I'm not a proponent, we can definitely eject fans - USC. Where did you learn otherwise? It requires a coach's exit as well here - not sure about other jurisdictions or leagues. As to the girls talking to umpires... Things like "I'm batting for number 7" or "Time out" or "What's the count" or even "Where was that pitch?" are certainly acceptable. But I'll never allow the kids to argue a call or yell at me about anything.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 03:11pm
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I believe this is the full sentence that was originally posted. "He knows I don't let the players talk to me like that " . Not what was written by bluezebra. [Edited by TexBlue on May 24th, 2004 at 04:49 PM]
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Rick
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Mon May 24, 2004, 03:51pm
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that was a litte rough on him bluezebra IMO. This is the toughest part of our job and I think empathy is in order any time a blue discusses probs with coaches/fans... we all go through bs and each situation is different.
Also, whether you stop the game and say it wont go on until the heckler is handled or simply tell the heckler to leave or have the TD call the cops - the end result is basically the same - you ejected (or caused the removal of) the fan. How you did it would probably depend on your league rules and the situation. take it easy. regarding talking to the players.. i dont talk much to them either. I will talk to the coach about most issues. If they ask me the count I tell em or something like that - thats about it.... I think you took what he meant wrong. [Edited by wadeintothem on May 24th, 2004 at 04:57 PM]
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:05pm
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Speaking of players showing up the umpire, what do you do with the pitcher who constantly gives these exaggerated expressions of disbelief on BALL calls?
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Tom
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:10pm
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How can you be wrong about something which only you can decide? OTOH, ASA does not allow you any authority over the fans, however, I suspect the complex/league in your area probably does.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:12pm
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Speaking of ejecting fans, our JO ASA fastpitch commissioner gives the umpire that authority plus some.
Routine disruptive behavior, we can just eject. Refusal to leave results in a forfeit. If there is profanity involved not only will be fan/coach be ejected, but an OUT will be assessed against the offending team (this half inning if they are on offense, next half inning if they are on defense.) Before you say anything, Mike - I don't like it either, but it works OK most of the time, since I will ignore the occasional expression of frustration and will give a warning if things start to cross the line, and I only do JO ball. The rule comes from the ASA commissioner's office.
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Tom
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:13pm
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if they control themselves enough to not say anything I just ignore it. I dont know really what you mean by exagerated, if she's stomping around that would be diff.. but just a look where I can tell she doesnt like the call - I let it slide. They are working hard. Ive never had that happen to where I would even warn em... and I've had a few pitchers who argue the call with their faces. A couple of batters give me the evil eye too. Evil eye is not a good thing to give me if youre a batter.. unless you enjoy a super duper theatric sell out on your strike out
 .. but for the pitcher .. I just let it slide.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:16pm
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 I mean the big, exaggerated jaw drop, head sag, roll eyes stuff. Intended for everyone to see - not just the "evil eye" to the umpire.
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Tom
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:18pm
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Of course i do! What do you think.. girls softball came naturally to me in an epiphany? I'm an evil converted baseballer.
yeah, that stuff you mention I just let that slide myself. I had one the other day that was kinda giving the ole foot stomp back to the plate. I just kinda smile to myself BECAUSE i do have a teenage daughter. Let me add this about that pitcher... You will see her in the bigs one day IMO. I've watched her since she was 12U for 3 years now and she is the best pitcher i've ever seen for a kid. She can flat throw that ball. She hit me a couple of times too. I think on purpose .Her catcher wears this thing on her hand for padding (made for catchers).. I'd never seen it before... I wish I had that when I was catching. [Edited by wadeintothem on May 24th, 2004 at 05:26 PM]
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:23pm
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And you know I cannot keep from saying something, don't you? As has been discussed before, there are ways to handle such situations properly and without involving the rule book. Instead of taking a shortcut and *******izing the rules, maybe the commissioner should just have the umpires trained how to handle unruly fans. As usual, JMHO,
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:24pm
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Didn't feel the need to warn her. Like I said, this was last batter, timid girl. And she didn't hang out in this bad stance. She stepped out after every pitch, got her sign from the coach, walked back in looking at the pitcher, looked down and saw where her feet were and inched back into the box. Most of this before the pitcher was even on the rubber. When that pitcher said something initially, she was 3 steps in front of the rubber, barely inside the 8' circle.
And since you asked, we are stuck with the convoluted Dixie rules this year (although I'm sure I would not have bothered warning her in ASA either - it was not a time-consuming thing). Answering the other question about the pitcher who likes to show her frustration --- I tell myself to assume that all of this is her frustration at not getting the ball over the plate, and let them play. If she tries to show me up, her coach might get the "Coach, pitcher's glares aren't helping her" speech between innings and let him handle it.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 05:34pm
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If you get to come to the AFA Nationals, I will show you 3 different girls and let you ask them what I personally do. After I am 100PC sure it is me receiving these stares and exaggerated expression of disbelief. I call time, walk to the pitcher's circle, sweep the rubber, face the pitcher, and show her an area the size of a envelope box, right about my belt buckle and explain "that if I continue to receive this type of reaction, that will be your strike zone for the rest of this game." They don't usually stare my way anymore. One is in college at ULL, second pitcher on the squad and probably ULL's best hitter. Holly Tankersley.
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 11:07pm
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When I have a pitcher giving exaggerated expressions send a message to the pitcher through the catcher. Conversation goes something like this: Myself: As I dust the plate, "catcher...I know we are all part of the show, but you could let your pitcher know that I am the critic evaluating performances during this show, and if she doesn't stop overacting I will have no other choice than to end her performance. Please hustle back after talking with her. Thank you." That usually takes care of it. Michael
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