greatest interference play i ever heard

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by rwest

You don't put the runner back on third. He touched home before the appeal. Score the run, but wait to leave the field to give the defense an opportunity to appeal the runner leaving early.

Correct, but if the batter-runner is retired before safely reaching 1B, then no runs score if that's the 3rd out.

The only way this would result in the runner scoring is if there are no outs.

[Tru_in_Blu]

From the offense's perspective, I think this only works with less than 2 outs.

The ball becomes dead at the time of interference.

When there is interference, return any runners to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

For this to work for the offense, timing is important. R2 must not interfere until R1 has touched or crossed home.

By rule, I think you score the run.

At a NUS a couple of years ago, I presented a similar scenario to our instructors. KR ruled that the run would score. I'm not sure, but this may have also been included in one of the ASA rules and clarifications articles.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

From the offense's perspective, I think this only works with less than 2 outs.

The ball becomes dead at the time of interference.

When there is interference, return any runners to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

For this to work for the offense, timing is important. R2 must not interfere until R1 has touched or crossed home.

By rule, I think you score the run.

At a NUS a couple of years ago, I presented a similar scenario to our instructors. KR ruled that the run would score. I'm not sure, but this may have also been included in one of the ASA rules and clarifications articles.

Less than 1 out. The runner is out, and by the rule cited rwest, the batter-runner would also be out.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Correct, but if the batter-runner is retired before safely reaching 1B, then no runs score if that's the 3rd out.

The only way this would result in the runner scoring is if there are no outs.

However, the OP never said anything about the number of outs. Did it?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Less than 1 out. The runner is out, and by the rule cited rwest, the batter-runner would also be out.

So let's consider if R2 is simply hit by a line drive while off the base. In this case, R1 would likely not have passed home plate, unless he was Flash.

I this case, R2 is out for INT, R1 is returned to 3B, and credit the batter with a base hit and award 1B.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

So let's consider if R2 is simply hit by a line drive while off the base. In this case, R1 would likely not have passed home plate, unless he was Flash.

I this case, R2 is out for INT, R1 is returned to 3B, and credit the batter with a base hit and award 1B.

This is different than the OP, but correct on the ruling.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by rwest

However, the OP never said anything about the number of outs. Did it?

No, I think a number of us (myself included) assumed there were 2 outs.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by rwest

You don't put the runner back on third. He touched home before the appeal. Score the run, but wait to leave the field to give the defense an opportunity to appeal the runner leaving early.

There was no catch, so the runner leaving early or late is moot.

[andyump]

sorry fellow umps there were no outs and you can not appeal the play, the ball was never caught, glad eeryone is putting in there input

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by andyump

sorry fellow umps there were no outs and you can not appeal the play, the ball was never caught, glad eeryone is putting in there input

Yeah, we kinda needed that information.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

There was no catch, so the runner leaving early or late is moot.

I sit corrected!

[andyump]

so are we all in agreement the runner on 3rd has to score since there are 0 outs and the ball was not caught for a legal appeal ,what can we do as umps but to have our car started and run as fast as we can.

[Tru_in_Blu]

As a creative former player/coach, I'm now even considering if the run would score had there been two outs. Because of the interference by R2, I'm thinking BR is still awarded 1B and credited with a hit.

I recall a play I had last season w/ R1 on third, R2 on second and 2 outs. Batter hits a routine grounder to F6 who fields it cleanly. Had he simply thrown to 1B, the BR would have been retired easily [assuming no muff by F3]. But R2 ran very close to F6, but not past him. For some reason, F6 then decided to take the "easy out" right in front of him by tagging R2. But R2 had baited him and headed back to second base. There was a resulting rundown and R2 was eventually tagged out, but long after R1 had crossed home. So score that run. BR did reach 1B because of the rundown.

Can the same logic be applied to our OP with 2 outs?

If this is such a great play, why don't we ever see it? How has ASA covered their collective bases on this one?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

As a creative former player/coach, I'm now even considering if the run would score had there been two outs. Because of the interference by R2, I'm thinking BR is still awarded 1B and credited with a hit.

I recall a play I had last season w/ R1 on third, R2 on second and 2 outs. Batter hits a routine grounder to F6 who fields it cleanly. Had he simply thrown to 1B, the BR would have been retired easily [assuming no muff by F3]. But R2 ran very close to F6, but not past him. For some reason, F6 then decided to take the "easy out" right in front of him by tagging R2. But R2 had baited him and headed back to second base. There was a resulting rundown and R2 was eventually tagged out, but long after R1 had crossed home. So score that run. BR did reach 1B because of the rundown.

Can the same logic be applied to our OP with 2 outs?

No, because in all rule codes (NFHS, ASA, NCAA) of a routine (fair) fly, both the runner and batter are out, or in the case of 2 out, the batter has finished her turn at bat but did not reach first, and no run can score if the BR does not reach first.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

As a creative former player/coach, I'm now even considering if the run would score had there been two outs. Because of the interference by R2, I'm thinking BR is still awarded 1B and credited with a hit.

I recall a play I had last season w/ R1 on third, R2 on second and 2 outs. Batter hits a routine grounder to F6 who fields it cleanly. Had he simply thrown to 1B, the BR would have been retired easily [assuming no muff by F3]. But R2 ran very close to F6, but not past him. For some reason, F6 then decided to take the "easy out" right in front of him by tagging R2. But R2 had baited him and headed back to second base. There was a resulting rundown and R2 was eventually tagged out, but long after R1 had crossed home. So score that run. BR did reach 1B because of the rundown.

Can the same logic be applied to our OP with 2 outs?

If this is such a great play, why don't we ever see it? How has ASA covered their collective bases on this one?

The run might score, however, I don't believe BR would be credited with a hit. Upon calling interference we have the third out of the inning, so how can BR be credited with a hit? The run scores because it occurred before
the interference. Not sure how the BR can cause a run to score and not be credited with a hit or a sacrifice. Don't know how to record this in the stats. All that being said, the third out of the inning is not a force, so maybe the run does count. There is no fourth out appeal here to negate the run scored, because there is no appeal to be made.

So it appears that the only way the run would not score is when there is 1 out. Rule 10 doesn't apply because we have not made a reversal of a umpires decision nor did we make a delayed call that put the offense or defense in jeopardy.

Seems like there is a hole in the rules here.