Dropped third strike?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Isn't a leap also considered a replant?

No, which is what I stated in an earlier post.

See? I realize I'm relatively new to the sport but I do think that you all would be more encouraging to new people if you could patiently explain rather than rudely ridicule.

Rita

Which is where I was heading. When you began telling me how you handle it and I questioned that. However, instead of trying to learn, you seemed to be more interested in telling me how players and managers have their own langauge and you rather communicate at an amateur level instead of using the proper terminology which, IMO, helps others learn.

A major point on game management is for an umpire to listen to a coach's argument/issue, they just may have a point. In turn, if you are talking, you aren't listening.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rita C

...rather than rudely ridicule.

Rita

Don't take it personally, Rita. Mike rudely ridicules everyone eventually.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, which is what I stated in an earlier post.



Which is where I was heading. When you began telling me how you handle it and I questioned that. However, instead of trying to learn, you seemed to be more interested in telling me how players and managers have their own langauge and you rather communicate at an amateur level instead of using the proper terminology which, IMO, helps others learn.

A major point on game management is for an umpire to listen to a coach's argument/issue, they just may have a point. In turn, if you are talking, you aren't listening.

I AM trying to learn. However, I will be the first to admit that I may have some things learned wrong so far which I have to get corrected. I have been told that a leap is a replant. Apparently I was told wrongly.

It took the same process to learn to call baseball. A lot of umpires for baseball have some wrong ideas that they teach as fact. It took a while to sort it all out.

And coaches do have their own language. That has to be learned as well.

Rita

[DaveASA/FED]

First off Rita, welcome to the Softball board! I agree some of the regular posters here are not very nice to new people. I think they forget they were new once, and someone had to help them learn the ways of the softball game. They have little to no patience for new people anymore, and part of that comes from the fact that they have dealt with people over and over that have come to the site(s) that they frequent (some of them frequent SEVERAL sites) and dealt with countless people that post using the wrong terminology which gets their skives in a wad since they are trying to envision the play to make a ruling. But because of the incorrect terminology used it ends up being a totally different situation (not in your case, most should know what the “rubber” is when you say it even though the correct softball term is “pitching plate”, but some have the R1 on first R3 on 3rd which is a different play from R1 on 3rd and R2 on 1st ). I think you have been beat up enough about that issue.

I do agree with your concept on not telling the coach / player they leaped or crow hopped during a game. I tell them what I saw that made me call an illegal pitch. And Irish, no I don’t want to continue to perpetuate ignorance but on the field during a game is not the time to teach the correct terms. I am not willing to get into a debate during the game over why it’s a leap vs a crow hop. And what’s worse than saying they “crow hopped” when they had a perfect deep valley drag away from the pitching plate but they still had their hands together when they left the plate, thus starting their pitch from somewhere other than the pitching plate which is a crow hop. Every Tom, Dick and Harriet saw that back foot on the ground but you called it a crow HOP, come on blue get a clue. I am going to say “you started your pitch in front of the pitching plate”, or “you have to start your pitch while in contact with the pitching plate”. Or if they leap, “both feet were airborne at the same time” or “you have to keep that back foot on the ground”. Could I have said “your leaping”? Sure, but then I open up the “No that’s a crow hop” type of response from someone (usually on the offensive side) and that leads to every mom and dad on both sides thinking I’m an idiot calling the wrong thing illegal. So this is one area where I say its illegal and here is why.

Ok I’m going to start another thread about this because I know this will get things going. A crow hop is starting the pitch from somewhere other than the pitching plate. Pitcher has hands together and leaps, drags or steps forward then starts their pitch (separates their hands). This is starting the pitch from somewhere other than the pitching plate. Usually, but not always, when they reach this new starting point they replant and push off from this point in front of the pitching plate as they start the pitch. A leap is just that both feet are airborne at the same time. Usually when they land they are already well into the windup and deliver the pitch shortly after they land. There is not usually any replant or push off after they land, just the force of them being airborne and driving toward the batter is the advantage. Again, this is why I prefer not to use terminology like “leap”, “replant” or “crow hop” during a game, we as umpires can’t always agree and will argue for 50 posts on this forum, who wants to have that sort of debate during a game?? Not me!!!!

I also think the point of using textbook terminology and wording whenever possible (whenever it helps and not hurts) is a good idea. It helps eliminate confusion and misinterpretation. I know this sounds like it’s in direct contrast to my last comment about NOT describing an illegal pitch as a “leap” or “crow hop”, and maybe it is a little bit. But the way I look at it, by saying why I called it illegal I am giving them the information they need to ‘fix’ that illegal pitch and make it legal. Most would not know the correct definition and might continue to have there hands together when they push off from the pitching plate. When I say use rulebook terminology I mean saying things like “the fielder impeded the runners progress prior to having possession of the ball” instead of “she blocked the base”. Both sort of mean the same thing but the latter would allow the coach to then question if there was possession since the defense can block the base once they have possession of the ball.

Lastly, in your OP I agree you have to have the batter in the batting position prior to allowing the pitcher to assume the pitching position. With a batter runner (someone who has completed their turn at bat, but has not been putout) in the batter’s box as your OP described, the pitcher hasn’t assumed the pitching position yet, so the requirement of not throwing to the base while in contact with the pitching plate is not valid at this point. Again as someone else has pointed out, if you have a pitcher that doesn’t drag very far away from the pitching plate when they pitch and a hot shot comes up the middle that they knock down, step backward and have a foot in contact with the pitching plate as they throw to 1st to attempt to retire that batter runner, I don’t think anyone is going to ask you why you didn’t call an illegal pitch. This, in theory, is the same situation that you had in the OP. It’s not as easily seen since it appears there is a batter, and it appears the pitcher was in the pitching position and in contact with the pitching plate when she threw to 1st. But that’s why we make $250 a game because we can tell the difference

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Don't take it personally, Rita. Mike rudely ridicules everyone eventually.

Well, you know, Tom, I just reread the thread and I'm still looking for that point.

I do not believe I was rude, I was talking to what I have been told is an experienced umpire who said she was here to learn, yet did more talking than listening.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, you know, Tom, I just reread the thread and I'm still looking for that point.

I do not believe I was rude, I was talking to what I have been told is an experienced umpire who said she was here to learn, yet did more talking than listening.

Bull**** Mike......you seem to not be happy unless you are belittling someone.......I have known you since the rec.sports boards and McGriffs........I have called you out a few times when you have been wrong and you begrudgingly admitted your mistakes........

Personally.......I would have loved to have you as a UIC at one of my Regionals or Nationals as I know you could make me a better umpire........but I bet the guys I had were just as good............

I have always valued your insight......but you can be a bit harsh......I know I can be too at times, but you seem to go out of your way to crush new umpires on the internet.

As Wally Sparks once told me.......always stive to be better.

Joel

I am cranky as our night time lows have been around 79...........can anyone blame me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Bull**** Mike......you seem to not be happy unless you are belittling someone.......I have known you since the rec.sports boards and McGriffs........I have called you out a few times when you have been wrong and you begrudgingly admitted your mistakes........

Personally.......I would have loved to have you as a UIC at one of my Regionals or Nationals as I know you could make me a better umpire........but I bet the guys I had were just as good............

I have always valued your insight......but you can be a bit harsh......I know I can be too at times, but you seem to go out of your way to crush new umpires on the internet.

As Wally Sparks once told me.......always stive to be better.

Joel

I am cranky as our night time lows have been around 79...........can anyone blame me.

If you say so, but then again, you want Peaches & Cream, call the John Butler Trio.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you say so, but then again, you want Peaches & Cream, call the John Butler Trio.

Never been a fan of Peaches & Cream, but if I were it would be Blue Bell.

Plain vanilla works for me.


Joel

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Never been a fan of Peaches & Cream, but if I were it would be Blue Bell.

Plain vanilla works for me.


Joel

Whooooooosh

(The sound of the last two posts going over my head)

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Whooooooosh

(The sound of the last two posts going over my head)

You have Blue Bell in Florida now Hugo.....at least in the panhandle. Been in your wonderful state a couple of times in the last year. It was nice to be able to get some good Tx ice cream........

Joel

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Never been a fan of Peaches & Cream, but if I were it would be Blue Bell.

I don't argue much, but when I do it is with Mike.

The Most Interesting Man in the World

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I don't argue much, but when I do it is with Mike.

Wrong picture, Tony.

Here's Mike Rowe

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

You have Blue Bell in Florida now Hugo.....at least in the panhandle. Been in your wonderful state a couple of times in the last year. It was nice to be able to get some good Tx ice cream........

Joel

Good, but over-rated.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Good, but over-rated.

Agreed.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

(Snip)was nice to be able to get some good Tx ice cream........

Joel

continuing with the digression

Speaking of Texas.... Asleep at the Wheel played at out town's Art Festival last week!! ahhhhhhhh haaaaaaaaaa