Runner on 3rd; Batter walks, continues to second?

[yscleo]

There's a runner at 3rd, with 1B and 2B empty. Batter/runner gets a walk and runs toward 1B, and turns to go toward 2B.

Does the batter/runner has to touch the white part of the first base bag in order to run toward second, or either part of the safety first base bag is good?

Does the first base fielder has to be out of the way, or can s/he be just by 1B ready to catch a throw from the pitcher?

Thanks.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by yscleo

There's a runner at 3rd, with 1B and 2B empty. Batter/runner gets a walk and runs toward 1B, and turns to go toward 2B.

Does the batter/runner has to touch the white part of the first base bag in order to run toward second, or either part of the safety first base bag is good?

Either

Does the first base fielder has to be out of the way, or can s/he be just by 1B ready to catch a throw from the pitcher?

Does F3 have possesion of the ball or in the act of fielding a batted ball?

[yscleo]

No, F1 has the ball, and is watching the B/R running toward 1B and possibly turning toward 2B. F3 doesn't have the ball. So F3 needs to be away from 1B and the basepath toward 2B?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by yscleo

No, F1 has the ball, and is watching the B/R running toward 1B and possibly turning toward 2B. F3 doesn't have the ball. So F3 needs to be away from 1B and the basepath toward 2B?

Those are the only two conditions in which a fielder may impede a runner. For NCAA, add "about to receive the ball" which means the ball must get to the defender before the runner.

[MD Longhorn]

ys is clearly not an umpire... I don't think he/she got your first point, Mike, when you tried to lead them to the answer on their own.

The first question is not a bad question.
The second is something every umpire should know, and it seems every coach/parent doesn't. I bet we (umpires) have to correct this 4-5 times a game the first few games of every season.

(Simplified for a non-umpire, with minor details removed) : Below NCAA, a fielder who is in the act of fielding a batted ball has right of way and must be avoided by runners. Other than that, NO fielder can be in a runner's basepath without the ball. Period. If such a fielder causes the runner to deviate or slow from the path THEY want to take, it's obstruction. And note that I didn't say baseLINE - I said path ... meaning the path the runner chooses to take.

And yes ... this means that every time F3 is standing on the bag (even just the inside corner) on a play where the batter rounds (or tries to round) first base, it's obstruction. Every time F5 is standing on 3rd as a runner from 2nd rounds for home (even if she doesn't GO home), it's obstruction.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(Simplified for a non-umpire, with minor details removed) : Below NCAA, a fielder who is in the act of fielding a batted ball has right of way and must be avoided by runners. Other than that, NO fielder can be in a runner's basepath without the ball. Period. If such a fielder causes the runner to deviate or slow from the path THEY want to take, it's obstruction. And note that I didn't say baseLINE - I said path ... meaning the path the runner chooses to take.

And yes ... this means that every time F3 is standing on the bag (even just the inside corner) on a play where the batter rounds (or tries to round) first base, it's obstruction. Every time F5 is standing on 3rd as a runner from 2nd rounds for home (even if she doesn't GO home), it's obstruction.

This should be given to every H.S. and youth fastpitch softball coach as well to every parent of a player at these levels. I have H.S. coaches ask me where their players are supposed to stand, and I tell the coaches that I can tell them (coaches) where they (players) cannot stand but they (coaches) have to teach their players where to stand.

MTD, Sr.

[yscleo]

Thanks for the responses.

Another question. Many B/R runs through the 1B, and then comes back to 1B. When they come back to 1B, the play ends and they need to stay on 1B.

If the B/R runs through 1B, turns around and comes toward 1B, B/R then decides to take off toward 2B. Does it matter how they take the path?

1. If they go through 1B at a slight angle, and is in fair territory, and in a continuation runs toward 2B, that's fine.

2. If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

3. If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

4. If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?

[SethPDX]

Using NFHS (ASA might be similar):

What you have to keep in mind here is the look back rule (LBR). Once the B/R has touched 1B and the pitcher has the ball in the pitching circle without attempting a play on any runner, the LBR is in effect. With the rule in effect:

If the runner comes back to and touches 1B she must stay there.

If the runner is off a base, once she stops she must make a choice of which base to go towards. She cannot change direction after she makes the decision.

There are some rules that specifically cover a B/R overrunning 1B.

Originally Posted by yscleo

If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

If the pitcher has the ball in the circle before the B/R turns around, the B/R would have to return to 1B.

Originally Posted by yscleo

If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

If the pitcher has the ball in the circle before she turns toward foul territory, once she turns right she is committed to 1B.

Originally Posted by yscleo

If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?

If the pitcher has the ball in the circle before she turns back to 1B, she is committed to 1B.

I think I got this right but I will get corrected if I'm wrong...

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by yscleo

Thanks for the responses.

Another question. Many B/R runs through the 1B, and then comes back to 1B. When they come back to 1B, the play ends and they need to stay on 1B.

If the B/R runs through 1B, turns around and comes toward 1B, B/R then decides to take off toward 2B. Does it matter how they take the path?

1. If they go through 1B at a slight angle, and is in fair territory, and in a continuation runs toward 2B, that's fine.

2. If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

3. If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

4. If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?

You might want to let us know where/who is in possession of the ball as well.

[yscleo]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

You might want to let us know where/who is in possession of the ball as well.

The catcher had already thrown the ball back to the pitch, in the circle.

I'm also thinking the best way to defend the way this runner going to 2B, trying to draw a throw to allow the runner at 3B to run home.

[MD Longhorn]

Drives me crazy when I see the ball go back to pitcher, BR rounds 1st, heads to 2nd, and the defense does nothing. If you're at a low level or young level, throw the friggin ball to 2nd as she passes where 2B normally plays and get the easy out. You need outs more than that 1 run costs you at low levels.

At any decent level 12U or up, fielders should easily be able to throw from 2nd to home without much of a problem... some should even be good enough to get the easy out and STILL throw home in time.

Did a 14U tourney 2 weeks ago and saw this twice. Both teams were fully good enough to get an out on this play. Worse ... WAY worse ... one of them happened with 2 outs. GET AN OUT when the offense does something stupid.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by yscleo

Thanks for the responses.

Another question. Many B/R runs through the 1B, and then comes back to 1B. When they come back to 1B, the play ends and they need to stay on 1B.

If the B/R runs through 1B, turns around and comes toward 1B, B/R then decides to take off toward 2B. Does it matter how they take the path?

1. If they go through 1B at a slight angle, and is in fair territory, and in a continuation runs toward 2B, that's fine.

2. If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

3. If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

4. If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?

Seth PDX gave you the answers for NFHS and ASA. In NCAA, 2. is also legal.