illegal pitch (confession: good for the soul?)

[Little Jimmy]

I'm not happy with what I did last night. I need to confess.

Our local crew was chosen to work one of the MD state semis last night. I was plate. My zone/focus was great and my partners were on top of all calls in the infield and outfield. We had no problems and I think we showed very well.

But. First pitch of the evening. Pitcher walks on to plate and immediately puts hands together. Stands looking at catcher for 2-4 seconds then delivers the pitch. I look, think and do not signal illegal. Second pitch, same as the first. I again look, think and do not signal illegal.

This goes against everything I've said I wanted to do differently this year. No more "she didn't gain an advantage" or "no one is complaining". My motto this year has been if it's illegal call it and let the chips fall where they may. But not last night. I said to myself during those first few pitches that if she's gotten this far doing this and no one else has called it then I'm not going to be the first.

For what it's worth (not much) she didn't gain an advantage and no one did complain. The other team hit her fairly hard and won 3-0. But the fact that I said to myself "not in this situation, this game's too big" bothers me. Many of the local vets that I admire and trust don't consider this particular infraction one that is worthy of enforcing in last nights situation. That doesn't make it any easier for me.

I've been replaying the game over in my mind and I keep saying that if I had it to do over again I would have called the very first pitch illegal and lived with the consequences. But I can't go back in time. Any comments?

[dtwsd]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Pitcher walks on to plate and immediately puts hands together. Stands looking at catcher for 2-4 seconds then delivers the pitch.

Maybe I'm missing something here but exactly what is illegal about this?

[Little Jimmy]

In part Fed 6-1-1-a "prior to pitching, the pitcher must take a position.....with the ball in the glove or pitching hand, and with the hands seperated".

[Dakota]

She wasn't taking signs with the hands separated, but she was pausing as if taking signs... only the hands were together, right?

FWIW, the rule is there to prevent quick pitching (which she was not doing due to the longer than normal pause with the hands together). Her pause with the hands together was well within legal limits, so her wind up was not by itself illegal, either.

In the final analysis, a pretty minor violation; don't beat yourself up so much.

[ronald]

And what did Al have to say about it?

[Little Jimmy]

Haven't spoken to Al or even know if it was observed by him. The pitcher was from his county so I assume that someone has seen this before.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Haven't spoken to Al or even know if it was observed by him. The pitcher was from his county so I assume that someone has seen this before.

you must have had the sherwood game as the other one made the headlines of the back page for an unheard infield fly followed by a tag out at the plate for the 3rd out.

ip was covered in our asa clinic this past sunday. stressed heavily and offered reasons why umps do not call it.

if pitcher from al's county and his association, it would depend on the umps. unfortunately, i can not see them calling it. i got to the playoffs and called a pitcher for leaping 3 or 4 times. they, the coaches, had no idea, what the pitcher was doing wrong. so i took that as it not having been called all year. never saw a playoff game since then. i am done with them.

[Little Jimmy]

I had Blake vs Northern.

The gist of my original post (other than the confessional side) was to ask if anyone else sometimes finds themself not enforcing illegal pitches because of the "importance" of the game or the "no one else does" argument. Even though I told myself that I was going to tow the line this year, when I came to the "big game" I rationalized myself out of it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

I had Blake vs Northern.

The gist of my original post (other than the confessional side) was to ask if anyone else sometimes finds themself not enforcing illegal pitches because of the "importance" of the game or the "no one else does" argument. Even though I told myself that I was going to tow the line this year, when I came to the "big game" I rationalized myself out of it.

Actually, I think it's the opposite. I find myself less likely to call IP in an early-season league game than in a game as you describe. Rather, I go to the coach between innings, ask if we can talk to the pitcher together and explain what needs to be fixed. (This being true only at younger ages. By 14 they should know it already).

Think of it this way ... in the "big game" you could be calling what you see. It's MORE important that a championship level pitcher not be able to take advantage of whatever benefit she's receiving from pitching illegally, however small.

That said... I don't have IP in the sitch you describe... because it's not illegal. You said she stepped onto the plate and then immediately put her hands together... that means that when she got on the plate, her hands were apart, as required.

[Little Jimmy]

She wasn't taking signs with the hands separated, but she was pausing as if taking signs... only the hands were together, right?

FWIW, the rule is there to prevent quick pitching (which she was not doing due to the longer than normal pause with the hands together). Her pause with the hands together was well within legal limits, so her wind up was not by itself illegal, either.

In the final analysis, a pretty minor violation; don't beat yourself up so much.

Dakota, you are correct. She was pausing, but this came after she immediately put her hands together when she stepped on the plate. I agree with the idea that she wasn't hurting the batter with her pitching approach/delivery. It's just that the rule says one thing, but I allowed another.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by dtwsd

Maybe I'm missing something here but exactly what is illegal about this?

I agree with you. The way the OP is written, I interpreted it to mean that F1 put her hands together immediately after making contact with the pitcher's plate.

MTD, Sr.

[Little Jimmy]

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

She violated NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b, specifically

While in this position, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal from the catcher.

"this position" is specified in 6-1-1-a,

Prior to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with shoulders in line with first and third base with the ball in the glove or pitching hand, and with the hands separated.

And, 6-1-1-c has the hands come together:

After completing “b” above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together...

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

I say illegal. She has to take the sign or simulate taking the sign after coming onto the PP with hands separated. The OP says she wasn't doing this so, illegal. Dave

[charliej47]

You are OOO! when she gets the ball she has so many seconds to pitch.
She must come to the rubber with hands separated.
She must take or simulate taking a signal
She must bring the hands together
she must......
....
....

By your definition and by rule she has complied with all specifications.

Taking or simulating can be an eye blink! Just because she does not pause as long as you think she should, does not make it wrong.

You are looking for things that do not exist.