illegal pitch (confession: good for the soul?)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by dtwsd

Maybe I'm missing something here but exactly what is illegal about this?

I agree with you. The way the OP is written, I interpreted it to mean that F1 put her hands together immediately after making contact with the pitcher's plate.

MTD, Sr.

[Little Jimmy]

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

She violated NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b, specifically

While in this position, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal from the catcher.

"this position" is specified in 6-1-1-a,

Prior to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with shoulders in line with first and third base with the ball in the glove or pitching hand, and with the hands separated.

And, 6-1-1-c has the hands come together:

After completing “b” above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together...

[charliej47]

You are OOO! when she gets the ball she has so many seconds to pitch.
She must come to the rubber with hands separated.
She must take or simulate taking a signal
She must bring the hands together
she must......
....
....

By your definition and by rule she has complied with all specifications.

Taking or simulating can be an eye blink! Just because she does not pause as long as you think she should, does not make it wrong.

You are looking for things that do not exist.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by charliej47

...Taking or simulating can be an eye blink!....

No, it can't. That is a quick pitch.

[ronald]

I had that pitcher from blake and yep I called IP on her.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by ronald

I had that pitcher from blake and yep I called IP on her.

had it mixed up with blair's team

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

She violated NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b, specifically

"this position" is specified in 6-1-1-a,

And, 6-1-1-c has the hands come together:

Yup.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

I say illegal. She has to take the sign or simulate taking the sign after coming onto the PP with hands separated. The OP says she wasn't doing this so, illegal. Dave

[marvin]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

First pitch of the evening. Pitcher walks on to plate and immediately puts hands together.

I also concur that this is an illegal pitch. The hands must remain apart long enough fulfill the requirement of NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b. If you don't stop the pitcher from immediately bringing together of the hands what are you going to do when she does this and goes immediately into a pitch?

The penalty for not complying with Rule 6-1-1-b is an illegal pitch, the penalty for quick pitching simply no pitch. See 6-2-4-b

ART. 4 . . . No pitch shall be declared when:
b. the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken position or is off balance as a result of a previous pitch.

You may go the entire game without the pitcher taking advantage of not complying with 6-1-1-b or it might cause you more grief later.

That said - I enforce this pretty simply. Was there a discernible pause before bringing the hands together? In other words immediately isn't a pause.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by marvin

...The penalty for not complying with Rule 6-1-1-b is an illegal pitch, the penalty for quick pitching simply no pitch. See 6-2-4-b....

You're correct; I used the term too loosely.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by marvin

I also concur that this is an illegal pitch. The hands must remain apart long enough fulfill the requirement of NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b. If you don't stop the pitcher from immediately bringing together of the hands what are you going to do when she does this and goes immediately into a pitch?

The penalty for not complying with Rule 6-1-1-b is an illegal pitch, the penalty for quick pitching simply no pitch. See 6-2-4-b

ART. 4 . . . No pitch shall be declared when:
b. the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken position or is off balance as a result of a previous pitch.

You may go the entire game without the pitcher taking advantage of not complying with 6-1-1-b or it might cause you more grief later.

That said - I enforce this pretty simply. Was there a discernible pause before bringing the hands together? In other words immediately isn't a pause.

And where does it direct the pitcher or umpire to wait a specific period?

This is obviously something we would have to see since one person's idea of immediate may not be the same as the next.

Is there anything that states that the separated hands must remain still and not move toward each other as the pitcher is "similating" taking her signals?

[marvin]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And where does it direct the pitcher or umpire to wait a specific period?

This is obviously something we would have to see since one person's idea of immediate may not be the same as the next.

Is there anything that states that the separated hands must remain still and not move toward each other as the pitcher is "similating" taking her signals?

There is no set time specified, so umpire judgment comes into play. And nothing I wrote said that the hands have to be still, they (according to the rule) have to be apart during the time the pitcher is "taking or simulating taking" the sign.

I think that enforcement of this is critical because of the reason that I stated in my previous post, allowing it can lead to other issues.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by marvin

There is no set time specified, so umpire judgment comes into play.

My point, thank you.

And nothing I wrote said that the hands have to be still,

Never said you did

they (according to the rule) have to be apart during the time the pitcher is "taking or simulating taking" the sign.

So, watching the catcher, the pitcher steps onto the plate and then brings the hands together is okay as long as the pitcher doesn't walk through the pitch, right?

I think that enforcement of this is critical because of the reason that I stated in my previous post, allowing it can lead to other issues.

No argument, but isn't the question here what is being enforced?

[Little Jimmy]

Irish said...

And where does it direct the pitcher or umpire to wait a specific period?

This is obviously something we would have to see since one person's idea of immediate may not be the same as the next.

Is there anything that states that the separated hands must remain still and not move toward each other as the pitcher is "similating" taking her signals?

You've actually hit the nail on the head as far as what really has me irritated with my enforcement/non enforcement. The specifics are somewhat vague as to what the interpretation should be. Is it OK by the book(any book) for a pitcher to walk onto the pitching plate and at that same moment bring the hands together so that when both feet hit the plate she is together or almost together? Or is it a violation? I 've had veteran umpires, UIC's and various heads of state tell me me their interpretation, and there is no consensus. Some say absolutely not, don't allow it. Others say this is a minor violation at best, don't stop the flow of the game. And each one of these people have positions of authority and many years of experience that would lend creedence to either side of the argument.

Has any official word come down in the past from any organization that said that the motion I have been describing is definitively legal of illegal? Or is it simply up to each of us to decide for ourselves and explain our own personal view to those that question it?