Occupying the same base

[NCASAUmp]

Okay, let me toss this one out there. This one may be simple, but there's a twist I'm not 100% certain of.

ASA Rules, but interested if there are any rulesets with variations on this sitch.

R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B, no outs. B3 hits a long fly ball to the right field. R1 takes off on the hit. R2 initially stays, but leaves the base two steps before the ball is caught. R1 makes it just shy of 3B, realizes the ball is caught and heads back. R2 is already standing on 2B when R1 returns. Both are standing on the base. Defense tags R2, then R1.

What do you do?

[TwoBits]

Ball was caught, so R1 was not force to vacate second base. R2 is out regardless of who is tagged first. Had the ball been not caught in the outfield, then R1 would be out since she has been forced off second base.

I'm not sure if the "twist" you are referring to is R2 leaving too soon or not. I would not interpret the defensive team's actions as an appeal of R2 leaving too soon.

[surf24]

It is R1's base......since the ball was caught and they went back because they knew they had to tag and then knew they did not have time. R2 was out--base coaches were bad? lol

What call GOT made?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by surf24

It is R1's base......since the ball was caught and they went back because they knew they had to tag and then knew they did not have time. R2 was out--base coaches were bad? lol

What call GOT made?

Wasn't my game. Just want to see what y'all say. This was asked by a player on another forum.

The call that WAS made was clearly the wrong call, though. That much was certain.

[MD Longhorn]

There's really no twist here at all. Leaving a base early is a nothing unless someone appeals it. At this point in the play, all you have is 2 runners on a base - which is handled rather easily.

[NCASAUmp]

Well, here's the twist that comes to mind, and I might be over-thinking it...

An umpire does not want to tip their hand on an appeal play, but two runners occupying the same base is not an appeal play. We also can't honor "accidental appeals," which means we have to know WHY the defense is tagging the runner.

So what do we say when they make the tag? Sure, we can call the out, but if the OC asks you why, which reason do you give him/her?

Secondly, does R2 legally occupy 2B?

[MD Longhorn]

I said it before, but the fact that the player left early is completely irrelevant unless and until someone makes a specific appeal regarding that player leaving early. So ignore it.

If this happens, R2 is out when he's tagged. By rule. When OC asks me why, I say - because there were two people on the same base, R1 was there legally, so R2 is out when tagged. I'm not referring to the player leaving early at all - it never became relevant, and for all I care it didn't happen.

This isn't difficult or controversial at all.

[MD Longhorn]

Let's take this further - hoping this makes it clearer, not muddier.

R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. Deep fly to right is caught. R1 did not return all the way to 2nd before advancing to 3rd. R2 tagged up at 1st legally and went to 2nd - the ball is thrown hom and R2 advances to third. Both runners are now on third.

Fielder tags R1, then R2... what do you have?

I think it's safe to say that absent something verbal, they are making these tags because there are two people on base. R1 is there legally... so R2 is out. They can STILL appeal R1 leaving early.

Add in something different... coach yelling "Bobby - #14 left early, throw it to third", whereupon they tage R1 then R2... R1 is out for leaving early. R2 is now NOT out at third, because at the moment he's tagged, he's legally on 3rd base.

That help? Or did I make it worse?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I said it before, but the fact that the player left early is completely irrelevant unless and until someone makes a specific appeal regarding that player leaving early. So ignore it.

If this happens, R2 is out when he's tagged. By rule. When OC asks me why, I say - because there were two people on the same base, R1 was there legally, so R2 is out when tagged. I'm not referring to the player leaving early at all - it never became relevant, and for all I care it didn't happen.

This isn't difficult or controversial at all.

I agree completely with the man that needs to update his location in his profile.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I said it before, but the fact that the player left early is completely irrelevant unless and until someone makes a specific appeal regarding that player leaving early. So ignore it.

If this happens, R2 is out when he's tagged. By rule. When OC asks me why, I say - because there were two people on the same base, R1 was there legally, so R2 is out when tagged. I'm not referring to the player leaving early at all - it never became relevant, and for all I care it didn't happen.

This isn't difficult or controversial at all.

Is it implicit in your answer that R1 could be called out for leaving the base early because you are saying a runner can't tag up to an occupied base? If so, can you point me at that rule. If not, can someone please explain why there could be an appeal play here.
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The Cliff Condos Cosy Beach

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Is it implicit in your answer that R1 could be called out for leaving the base early because you are saying a runner can't tag up to an occupied base? If so, can you point me at that rule. If not, can someone please explain why there could be an appeal play here.

Can you clarify either what you're asking or what I said that made you think I was saying anything along the lines of what you posted here? You've lost me.

(Edit to add: I've insisted from the OP that until someone appeals, the fact that someone (it was R2, not R1) left early is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY irrelevant.)

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Can you clarify either what you're asking or what I said that made you think I was saying anything along the lines of what you posted here? You've lost me.

(Edit to add: I've insisted from the OP that until someone appeals, the fact that someone (it was R2, not R1) left early is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY irrelevant.)

So we both misread the OP, which I think is our disconnect. You have R2 leaving early and I had R1 leaving early. In the OP both R1 and R2 leave early.

Since I didn't realize R2 had left early, I didn't understand what possible appeal anyone was discussing which led me to question if you believed R1 could be called out on appeal even after retouching because R1 was on the base he had returned to.
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Live sex

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

So we both misread the OP, which I think is our disconnect. You have R2 leaving early and I had R1 leaving early. In the OP both R1 and R2 leave early.

Since I didn't realize R2 had left early, I didn't understand what possible appeal anyone was discussing which led me to question if you believed R1 could be called out on appeal even after retouching because R1 was on the base he had returned to.

And it's only Monday !!

[MD Longhorn]

Ah, got it, YU.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, here's the twist that comes to mind, and I might be over-thinking it...

An umpire does not want to tip their hand on an appeal play, but two runners occupying the same base is not an appeal play. We also can't honor "accidental appeals," which means we have to know WHY the defense is tagging the runner.

So what do we say when they make the tag? Sure, we can call the out, but if the OC asks you why, which reason do you give him/her?

Secondly, does R2 legally occupy 2B?

just like a live ball appeal. Afterall, when with a runner on 1st there is a line drive to the second baseman he catches the line drive and immediately throws to first to double off the runner...this would be a live ball appeal correct?