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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 09:35pm
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Occupying Free throw Spaces

I'm sure this has been covered but I was just corrected in a game tonight by my partner so I want to confirm the call...learn.

I was administrating the free throw (one shot/&1). A is shooting and A's players decide not to occupy the second lane spaces...all four of B's players were in their respective lane spaces. I informed the two B players (close to shooter) that they could take the second lane spaces vacated by A. My partner (in T) jumped in and immediately told the B players that they had to remain in their spaces...further stating to me that "that's incorrect and whoever told you that was WRONG"...in front of all the players and anyone else within earshot.

Since my partner had over 15 yrs experience doing college and HS I did not challenge the correction (I've only got 3 yrs experience). I did say later that I thought the players from B could occupy any of the 3 lane spaces. My partner just said no. I tried to find it in the rules book but could only find a reference to it in the HS casebook 8.1.4. This was a HS JV game.

Wrong or Right?
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 09:46pm
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Team B MUST occupy the first lane space above the block. Team A MAY occupy the second lane spaces. Team B MAY occupy the third and final marked lane spaces.

I only have my 07-08 rule book on hand, but it should be the same rule citation. Rule 8-1-4(e) says players may move along and across the lane to occupy a vacant space within the above limitation. Team B may have up to four (and at least two) players lined up on the lane. Team A may have up to two (or none, if they so choose).

Now, if A1 already had the ball at his disposal, the Team B players could not move, as doing so would constitute a violation.
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 09:56pm
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Thanks

I only had my 07/08 rule book with me at the game. I pulled my case book when I got home and it states (last sentence of 8.1.4 situation), "Four defensive players are permitted in any of the first three vacant marked lane spaces". The rules don't really make it clear other than using the words "shall" and "May".

Thanks for the reply.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 12:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NURef View Post
I'm sure this has been covered but I was just corrected in a game tonight by my partner so I want to confirm the call...learn.

I was administrating the free throw (one shot/&1). A is shooting and A's players decide not to occupy the second lane spaces...all four of B's players were in their respective lane spaces. I informed the two B players (close to shooter) that they could take the second lane spaces vacated by A. My partner (in T) jumped in and immediately told the B players that they had to remain in their spaces...further stating to me that "that's incorrect and whoever told you that was WRONG"...in front of all the players and anyone else within earshot.

Since my partner had over 15 yrs experience doing college and HS I did not challenge the correction (I've only got 3 yrs experience). I did say later that I thought the players from B could occupy any of the 3 lane spaces. My partner just said no. I tried to find it in the rules book but could only find a reference to it in the HS casebook 8.1.4. This was a HS JV game.

Wrong or Right?
This is why you shouldn't blindly trust the veterans.

Your partner was WRONG!

In an NFHS or NCAAM game the players may move and fill vacant lane spaces, except for the bottom two which MUST be occupied by the nonshooting team when players are allowed along the lane.

In an NCAAW game the spaces are designated and only the one team is allowed to fill those spots. No movement is permitted.

Direct your partner to read 8-1-4 (f).

Last edited by Nevadaref; Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 08:59am.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 12:24am
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This was on the Part II this year as well.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 08:10am
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Thanks for the feedback. I will be cautious on how I discuss this with my vet partner for he is a good official.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 08:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NURef View Post
I informed the two B players (close to shooter) that they could take the second lane spaces vacated by A.
Why are you coaching team B to an unintended advantage?
In the future, try to avoid that.
It's one thing if they ask, but another if it's volunteered information.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 09:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NURef View Post
My partner (in T) jumped in and immediately told the B players that they had to remain in their spaces...further stating to me that "that's incorrect and whoever told you that was WRONG"...in front of all the players and anyone else within earshot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NURef View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I will be cautious on how I discuss this with my vet partner for he is a good official.
You're nicer than I am. If a partner treated me that way, and I later found out that he was the one who was wrong, I would throw it in his face.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 09:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NURef View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I will be cautious on how I discuss this with my vet partner for he is a good official.
You might think so, but if he doesn't know a basic rule like that, it's debatable. And you deserve credit for seeking out the right answer rather than taking the 15 year vet's info and running with it.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 09:27am
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Originally Posted by mick View Post
Why are you coaching team B to an unintended advantage?
In the future, try to avoid that.
It's one thing if they ask, but another if it's volunteered information.
Concurred whole-heartedly. If they didn't ask there was no need to tell them they could move down.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 09:43am
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Two violations here by your "veteran" partner: (1) having the rule wrong, (2) being an azz about it.

Reminds me of Jim Evans's comment about "veterans": does he have 15 years' experience, or 1 year's experience 15 times?
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 09:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NURef View Post
my partner had over 15 yrs experience doing college
Nevada beat me to it, but if your partner works college WOMEN'S basketball, then that's probably why he made the error. Doesn't make it any better, but it happens. The worst part of this situation is not the error, but the way it was "announced" to you. That's the part I would address in a post-game conversation.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 01:36pm
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Can someone further clarify one more point on this? If FT shooter's opponents for some reason choose not to fill the first spaces, can FT shooter's teammates take them?

8-1-4 uses "shall" (not) in c. and it's not clear if that means "may never," given the use of "may" in d.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 01:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
Can someone further clarify one more point on this? If FT shooter's opponents for some reason choose not to fill the first spaces, can FT shooter's teammates take them?

8-1-4 uses "shall" (not) in c. and it's not clear if that means "may never," given the use of "may" in d.
The opponents do not have the option here of not occupying the first two spaces. Two opponents must occupy these spaces.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2008, 02:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
Can someone further clarify one more point on this? If FT shooter's opponents for some reason choose not to fill the first spaces, can FT shooter's teammates take them?

8-1-4 uses "shall" (not) in c. and it's not clear if that means "may never," given the use of "may" in d.

I always convert "shall not" to "is not permitted to" when I read a rule.
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