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Old Thu Aug 31, 2006, 11:54am
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Two runners occupying the same base

Here is the situation: John is batting, Mike is on 1B and Carl is on 2B. John hits a blooper to the outfield it, was a no catch by the outfielder, but the play was close enough so that the runners didnít know if the outfielder would catch the ball. Once Mike (on 1B) sees that the catch wasnít made he runs for 2B. Carl (on 2B) doesnít move. The outfielder gets to the ball and throws it to 2B in time to beat Mike, and force an out in a normal situation. The ump calls Mike safe. But now we have Mike and Carl both standing on 2B. The second baseman tags Carl and Mike but the ump says he doesnít see the tag, so Carl runs for 3B, the throw is dropped by the third baseman. Eventual result of the play is everyone is safe.

My question is not that the ump didnít see the tag or the force, but can you have 2 runners occupying the same base at the same time?
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Old Thu Aug 31, 2006, 12:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
Here is the situation: John is batting, Mike is on 1B and Carl is on 2B. John hits a blooper to the outfield it, was a no catch by the outfielder, but the play was close enough so that the runners didnít know if the outfielder would catch the ball. Once Mike (on 1B) sees that the catch wasnít made he runs for 2B. Carl (on 2B) doesnít move. The outfielder gets to the ball and throws it to 2B in time to beat Mike, and force an out in a normal situation. The ump calls Mike safe. But now we have Mike and Carl both standing on 2B. The second baseman tags Carl and Mike but the ump says he doesnít see the tag, so Carl runs for 3B, the throw is dropped by the third baseman. Eventual result of the play is everyone is safe.

My question is not that the ump didnít see the tag or the force, but can you have 2 runners occupying the same base at the same time?
Sure - why not?
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Old Thu Aug 31, 2006, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
Here is the situation: John is batting, Mike is on 1B and Carl is on 2B. John hits a blooper to the outfield it, was a no catch by the outfielder, but the play was close enough so that the runners didnít know if the outfielder would catch the ball. Once Mike (on 1B) sees that the catch wasnít made he runs for 2B. Carl (on 2B) doesnít move. The outfielder gets to the ball and throws it to 2B in time to beat Mike, and force an out in a normal situation. The ump calls Mike safe. But now we have Mike and Carl both standing on 2B. The second baseman tags Carl and Mike but the ump says he doesnít see the tag, so Carl runs for 3B, the throw is dropped by the third baseman. Eventual result of the play is everyone is safe.

My question is not that the ump didnít see the tag or the force, but can you have 2 runners occupying the same base at the same time?
Can you have two runners on the base at the same time? Yes. Are they both protected if tagged? No.

In this case, if the throw to 2nd beats Mike and the fielder touches the base, Mike is out and the force is removed, so Carl can stay on 2nd. Since the umpire ruled safe (Mike beat the throw? The fielder didn't touch the base?), Carl is forced to go to 3rd. If the fielder tagged both, Carl would be out since he is forced.
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Old Thu Aug 31, 2006, 12:40pm
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The second baseman tags Carl and Mike but the ump says he doesnít see the tag...

The BU needs an eye test. And some remedial mechanics study.

Bob
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Old Thu Aug 31, 2006, 01:32pm
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This is Bart's first post, so let's not be abrupt, and welcome him a-board.

The argodad explanation looks fine to me.

The bluezebra comment is also pertinent.
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Old Thu Aug 31, 2006, 03:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluezebra
The second baseman tags Carl and Mike but the ump says he doesnít see the tag...

The BU needs an eye test. And some remedial mechanics study.

Bob
Depends, I suppose.

If the umpire said he didn't see the tag, perhaps there was no tag. Perhaps the OP (or whoever relayed this story to him) THOUGHT (from over 100 feet away no doubt) that there was a tag and the umpire said he didn't see it - but the umpire did, in fact, see the tag ATTEMPT - and said, "I saw no tag".

This is, in fact, how I read this sitch the first time - no tag.
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Old Fri Sep 01, 2006, 11:26am
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Welcome, Bart.

Taking the umpire's calls on the play(s) at 2B at face value, we have no force out made and no tag, and when Carl attempt to advance to 3B, an overthrow. So no outs recorded, and all runners safe.

A runner is not automatically out when 2 runners occupy the same base. The defense must tag the runner who is not entitled to the base. This would have been Carl in your situation.
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Old Fri Sep 01, 2006, 01:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
can you have 2 runners occupying the same base at the same time?
That's why they call it second base...and at third, you can have three. Darn near had 3 at third at the 18A reginal this year...
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Old Fri Sep 01, 2006, 02:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Welcome, Bart.

Taking the umpire's calls on the play(s) at 2B at face value, we have no force out made and no tag, and when Carl attempt to advance to 3B, an overthrow. So no outs recorded, and all runners safe.

A runner is not automatically out when 2 runners occupy the same base. The defense must tag the runner who is not entitled to the base. This would have been Carl in your situation.
Or the base if the defense beats the runner, as the OP implied ("throws it to 2B in time to beat Mike, and force an out").
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Old Fri Sep 01, 2006, 06:17pm
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IF out at 2B ?

Lets say the runner from 1stis called out at 2B. Can carl now stay at 2B or is he still forced to go to 3B ?
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Old Fri Sep 01, 2006, 10:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
Lets say the runner from 1st is called out at 2B. Can carl now stay at 2B or is he still forced to go to 3B ?
The force is removed; he can stay on 2B.
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Old Sat Sep 02, 2006, 12:00am
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Years ago I had three runners on second base on a play similar to the one described here.

Runners at first and second. None out. Batter hit sinking line drive to right field. Right fielder short-hopped the ball but held it up to try to convince us the ball was caught. Runner on second held. Runner on first advanced to second. For some reason, the batter-runner ran all the way to second too! Three runners all at second base simultaneoulsy. The shortstop eventually got the ball and tagged everybody. The lead runner was out and the batter runner was out. What a weird double play that was!
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Old Sat Sep 02, 2006, 07:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robertson
Years ago I had three runners on second base on a play similar to the one described here.

Runners at first and second. None out. Batter hit sinking line drive to right field. Right fielder short-hopped the ball but held it up to try to convince us the ball was caught. Runner on second held. Runner on first advanced to second. For some reason, the batter-runner ran all the way to second too! Three runners all at second base simultaneoulsy. The shortstop eventually got the ball and tagged everybody. The lead runner was out and the batter runner was out. What a weird double play that was!
Smart shortstop, alert umpire.
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Old Sat Sep 02, 2006, 08:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robertson
Years ago I had three runners on second base on a play similar to the one described here.

Runners at first and second. None out. Batter hit sinking line drive to right field. Right fielder short-hopped the ball but held it up to try to convince us the ball was caught. Runner on second held. Runner on first advanced to second. For some reason, the batter-runner ran all the way to second too! Three runners all at second base simultaneoulsy. The shortstop eventually got the ball and tagged everybody. The lead runner was out and the batter runner was out. What a weird double play that was!
I certainly hope the SS tagged R1 first. If not....
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Old Sat Sep 02, 2006, 09:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
I certainly hope the SS tagged R1 first. If not....
I guess I assumed that from the "lead runner was out and the batter runner was out" sequence. Maybe not.
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