Appeal a turn toward second.

[shagpal]

are you in the "do nothing" camp too? I'm confounded by your reply. no one seems to want to setup up and make the call.

Originally Posted by ChampaignBlue

I understand your dilemma. We as umps do coach, during the pregame for example when we remind players that there will be do hitting above the belt (ie slide, give up, go around). During the game, during a live ball, we can only call according to the rules. Eventually, no matter what, play will continue but we can't coach even if it is to both sides during a play. Even if you have a player acting up you do the coaching during a dead ball.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by shagpal

are you in the "do nothing" camp too? I'm confounded by your reply. no one seems to want to setup up and make the call.

Shagpal,

At least five experienced umpires have given you their point of view. Because none of them agree with you, you keep asking the same question. Over and over. You're repeating yourself. You're being redundant.

Please, accept or reject the advice you've been offered. But let's move on!

[shagpal]

no, I came into this discussion late, and read varying view points, and seemed not one of was willing to call SAFE.

all except one voiced that it was necessary to respond somehow, all the others expressed that doing nothing is okay.

the NFHS umpires manual says you gotta give a call.

Originally Posted by argodad

Shagpal,

At least five experienced umpires have given you their point of view. Because none of them agree with you, you keep asking the same question. Over and over. You're repeating yourself. You're being redundant.

Please, accept or reject the advice you've been offered. But let's move on!

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by shagpal

no, I came into this discussion late, and read varying view points, and seemed not one of was willing to call SAFE.

all except one voiced that it was necessary to respond somehow, all the others expressed that doing nothing is okay.

the NFHS umpires manual says you gotta give a call.

I'm getting lost here....

How bout if you start at the beginning and state the play and your reaction.

We may have gone so far that we are seeing different situations.

[shagpal]

of course, it's the OP, first post of the thread.

I've already stated my position on this is, that doing nothing is not proper. what one could or would do, I suggested it already, and got jumped. I said I didn't wanna get into their squabbles and got jumped anyways. go figure.


Appeal a turn toward second.

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I'm getting lost here....

How bout if you start at the beginning and state the play and your reaction.

We may have gone so far that we are seeing different situations.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by argodad

(snip)

...you keep asking the same question.
Over and over.
You're repeating yourself.
You're being redundant.

Brought to you by.................

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by shagpal

are you in the "do nothing" camp too? I'm confounded by your reply. no one seems to want to setup up and make the call.

I'm in the do nothing camp. In the OP everyone is standing around. The way I see it there is no call to make yet, so how could the umpire "step up"? There is no appealable play here so there is no call to make.

Also, as the saying goes, "Silence can't be misquoted." It usually applies to a different context but I think remaining silent will keep you out of trouble here as well.

[shagpal]

seth, way to step and man up. you didn't get nasty. alot of guys can learn from you.

honestly, my first reaction was to "do nothing" as well, so I am not blaming everyone's initial take. but remembering that every play deserves call, and that in this scenario, the OP is describing players expressly requesting a ruling on an appeal, got me thinking about TEX's point of view. I was appalled to see the reaction of those that seemed to gang mug Tex, because what he posted seemed to have merit, and the replies challenging him seemed empty and to lack merit.

unless there's some case study floating out there to dig up, and I can't know everything published, the ump manuals I have are very explicit on this issue, that an umpire is required to rule when an appeal is requested, and the play the OP described is explicitly appealable. an umpire can ask the appellants what is being appealed, and this is NOT considered coaching.


stat

Originally Posted by SethPDX

I'm in the do nothing camp. In the OP everyone is standing around. The way I see it there is no call to make yet, so how could the umpire "step up"? There is no appealable play here so there is no call to make.

Also, as the saying goes, "Silence can't be misquoted." It usually applies to a different context but I think remaining silent will keep you out of trouble here as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

seth, way to step and man up. you didn't get nasty. alot of guys can learn from you.

honestly, my first reaction was to "do nothing" as well, so I am not blaming everyone's initial take. but remembering that every play deserves call, and that in this scenario, the OP is describing players expressly requesting a ruling on an appeal, got me thinking about TEX's point of view. I was appalled to see the reaction of those that seemed to gang mug Tex, because what he posted seemed to have merit, and the replies challenging him seemed empty and to lack merit.

unless there's some case study floating out there to dig up, and I can't know everything published, the ump manuals I have are very explicit on this issue, that an umpire is required to rule when an appeal is requested, and the play the OP described is explicitly appealable. an umpire can ask the appellants what is being appealed, and this is NOT considered coaching.

Out of curiousity, are you an umpire? Or just a ballplayer out of CA? How much training have you experience? Every play deserves a call? Never heard that one because it really isn't so. If a throw is made to retire a runner at 2B and the ball gets by and is rolling in the outfield, do you still come up with a big safe? Ever hear of "no ball, no call"?

Tex misapplied a mechanic to a play that is described as an appeal play that truly is not an appeal play, but simply a live ball still in play where a runner may or may not advance and the defense can only stop the runner by putting them out or throwing the ball out of play. Something I believe we have established here via the rule book. I guess we really don't need a case study then, do we?

[shagpal]

(mike), if you are gonna throw the book at a fellow umpires, be prepared to have it thrown back at you.

READ the NFHS umpire manual. it is explicit. you are trying to interpret your position, but the rule spells it out explicitly, NOTHING is NOT an option.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Out of curiousity, are you an umpire? Or just a ballplayer out of CA? How much training have you experience? Every play deserves a call? Never heard that one because it really isn't so. If a throw is made to retire a runner at 2B and the ball gets by and is rolling in the outfield, do you still come up with a big safe? Ever hear of "no ball, no call"?

Tex misapplied a mechanic to a play that is described as an appeal play that truly is not an appeal play, but simply a live ball still in play where a runner may or may not advance and the defense can only stop the runner by putting them out or throwing the ball out of play. Something I believe we have established here via the rule book. I guess we really don't need a case study then, do we?

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by shagpal

dave, if you are gonna throw the book at a fellow umpires, be prepared to have ti thrown back at you.

READ the NFHS umpire manual. it is explicit. you are trying to interpret your position, but the rule spells it out explicitly, NOTHING is NOT an option.

Not sure who you are talking to, you quoted Irish, who is Mike. But I will pull my FED book out tonight and look at it in detail and see what it says about ruling on improper live ball appeals. I don't remember covering that section in any of my training.

[shagpal]

oh, right on. sorry dave,

yes, I was responding to mike (irish), the one throwing the book at anyone who disagrees w/ his position.

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Not sure who you are talking to, you quoted Irish, who is Mike. But I will pull my FED book out tonight and look at it in detail and see what it says about ruling on improper live ball appeals. I don't remember covering that section in any of my training.

umpires can ask if it is unclear what the defense is appealing. umpires should ask the appellant what and which player they are appealing. asking such questions is not coaching. this comes straight outa the CCA umpires manual. seems that not clarifying and not ruling is a cop out. doing nothing would NOT an option.

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok coming in late to this party, seems like ya'll got things going pretty good about now. So let me ask you this, on the field I got a runner past first base, and a fielder appearing to make a live ball appeal. In my umpiring mind the only thing I can see is that the fielder is making a live ball appeal of the runner missing first base, or touching the incorrect part of first base. That's the only thing I can think of to rule on an appeal in this situation. So what if we signal safe and say "They touched the base", or something along those lines.

I don't love that idea, but I don't like standing around either, although I have never seen a time where someone didn't do something in a game (I'm a FP guy remember) someone is always gonna throw, tag or run for the most part. But in my offering I ruled on what I thought the fielder was appealing, cause there is nothing else to appeal in the OP so I could see that working too, no coaching but you know I'm not calling anyone out either and if your smart if I didnt' call them out then they are still live to run or be tagged out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shagpal

...every play deserves call,

No, it doesn't, but besides, no one has made a play here on which to make a call.

Originally Posted by shagpal

and that in this scenario, the OP is describing players expressly requesting a ruling on an appeal,

There is no appeal to rule on, regardless of what the player "requests." The only way to get the runner out is to tag the runner, not tag the base.