Appeal a turn toward second.

[ChampaignBlue]

I understand your dilemma. We as umps do coach, during the pregame for example when we remind players that there will be do hitting above the belt (ie slide, give up, go around). During the game, during a live ball, we can only call according to the rules. Eventually, no matter what, play will continue but we can't coach even if it is to both sides during a play. Even if you have a player acting up you do the coaching during a dead ball.

[shagpal]

are you in the "do nothing" camp too? I'm confounded by your reply. no one seems to want to setup up and make the call.

Originally Posted by ChampaignBlue

I understand your dilemma. We as umps do coach, during the pregame for example when we remind players that there will be do hitting above the belt (ie slide, give up, go around). During the game, during a live ball, we can only call according to the rules. Eventually, no matter what, play will continue but we can't coach even if it is to both sides during a play. Even if you have a player acting up you do the coaching during a dead ball.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by shagpal

are you in the "do nothing" camp too? I'm confounded by your reply. no one seems to want to setup up and make the call.

Shagpal,

At least five experienced umpires have given you their point of view. Because none of them agree with you, you keep asking the same question. Over and over. You're repeating yourself. You're being redundant.

Please, accept or reject the advice you've been offered. But let's move on!

[shagpal]

no, I came into this discussion late, and read varying view points, and seemed not one of was willing to call SAFE.

all except one voiced that it was necessary to respond somehow, all the others expressed that doing nothing is okay.

the NFHS umpires manual says you gotta give a call.

Originally Posted by argodad

Shagpal,

At least five experienced umpires have given you their point of view. Because none of them agree with you, you keep asking the same question. Over and over. You're repeating yourself. You're being redundant.

Please, accept or reject the advice you've been offered. But let's move on!

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by shagpal

no, I came into this discussion late, and read varying view points, and seemed not one of was willing to call SAFE.

all except one voiced that it was necessary to respond somehow, all the others expressed that doing nothing is okay.

the NFHS umpires manual says you gotta give a call.

I'm getting lost here....

How bout if you start at the beginning and state the play and your reaction.

We may have gone so far that we are seeing different situations.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by argodad

(snip)

...you keep asking the same question.
Over and over.
You're repeating yourself.
You're being redundant.

Brought to you by.................

[shagpal]

of course, it's the OP, first post of the thread.

I've already stated my position on this is, that doing nothing is not proper. what one could or would do, I suggested it already, and got jumped. I said I didn't wanna get into their squabbles and got jumped anyways. go figure.


Appeal a turn toward second.

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I'm getting lost here....

How bout if you start at the beginning and state the play and your reaction.

We may have gone so far that we are seeing different situations.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by shagpal

are you in the "do nothing" camp too? I'm confounded by your reply. no one seems to want to setup up and make the call.

I'm in the do nothing camp. In the OP everyone is standing around. The way I see it there is no call to make yet, so how could the umpire "step up"? There is no appealable play here so there is no call to make.

Also, as the saying goes, "Silence can't be misquoted." It usually applies to a different context but I think remaining silent will keep you out of trouble here as well.

[shagpal]

seth, way to step and man up. you didn't get nasty. alot of guys can learn from you.

honestly, my first reaction was to "do nothing" as well, so I am not blaming everyone's initial take. but remembering that every play deserves call, and that in this scenario, the OP is describing players expressly requesting a ruling on an appeal, got me thinking about TEX's point of view. I was appalled to see the reaction of those that seemed to gang mug Tex, because what he posted seemed to have merit, and the replies challenging him seemed empty and to lack merit.

unless there's some case study floating out there to dig up, and I can't know everything published, the ump manuals I have are very explicit on this issue, that an umpire is required to rule when an appeal is requested, and the play the OP described is explicitly appealable. an umpire can ask the appellants what is being appealed, and this is NOT considered coaching.


stat

Originally Posted by SethPDX

I'm in the do nothing camp. In the OP everyone is standing around. The way I see it there is no call to make yet, so how could the umpire "step up"? There is no appealable play here so there is no call to make.

Also, as the saying goes, "Silence can't be misquoted." It usually applies to a different context but I think remaining silent will keep you out of trouble here as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

seth, way to step and man up. you didn't get nasty. alot of guys can learn from you.

honestly, my first reaction was to "do nothing" as well, so I am not blaming everyone's initial take. but remembering that every play deserves call, and that in this scenario, the OP is describing players expressly requesting a ruling on an appeal, got me thinking about TEX's point of view. I was appalled to see the reaction of those that seemed to gang mug Tex, because what he posted seemed to have merit, and the replies challenging him seemed empty and to lack merit.

unless there's some case study floating out there to dig up, and I can't know everything published, the ump manuals I have are very explicit on this issue, that an umpire is required to rule when an appeal is requested, and the play the OP described is explicitly appealable. an umpire can ask the appellants what is being appealed, and this is NOT considered coaching.

Out of curiousity, are you an umpire? Or just a ballplayer out of CA? How much training have you experience? Every play deserves a call? Never heard that one because it really isn't so. If a throw is made to retire a runner at 2B and the ball gets by and is rolling in the outfield, do you still come up with a big safe? Ever hear of "no ball, no call"?

Tex misapplied a mechanic to a play that is described as an appeal play that truly is not an appeal play, but simply a live ball still in play where a runner may or may not advance and the defense can only stop the runner by putting them out or throwing the ball out of play. Something I believe we have established here via the rule book. I guess we really don't need a case study then, do we?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shagpal

...every play deserves call,

No, it doesn't, but besides, no one has made a play here on which to make a call.

Originally Posted by shagpal

and that in this scenario, the OP is describing players expressly requesting a ruling on an appeal,

There is no appeal to rule on, regardless of what the player "requests." The only way to get the runner out is to tag the runner, not tag the base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Question around FED 8-4-2(b)

R1 at 3B, no outs. BR hits ball to F5 and then is safe at 1B. She overruns down the right field line. R1 held at 3B and does not score.

While BR is approximate 30 or 40 feet down the line, she makes an attempt for 2B and then turns back toward 1B and just stops. F3 while holding the ball steps on 1B and appeals that F3 has made an attempt for second. BU rules B2 is out on appeal since F3 is not expected to chase B2 into right field to tag her out, especially with a runner at third.

Anyone disagree?

OK, here is the OP again.

If BR was tagged out after "she makes an attempt for 2B", that is an out because she has forfeited her exemption on the overrun.

The possibility of the BR advancing toward 2nd eliminates any non-tag appeal at 1st;
and by 8-7-4-c in the LBR, she must "advance non-stop to second base".

R1 at 3rd has no beariing on the ruling.

The OP says "F3 is not expected to chase B2". If so, that could change the outcome. Where is it written?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

...by 8-7-4-c in the LBR, she must "advance non-stop to second base".

LBR is not in effect... F3 has the ball.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

"F3 is not expected to chase B2". If so, that could change the outcome. Where is it written?

In the case book ruling on abandoning a base.

ABANDONING A BASE
8.6.22 SITUATION A: B1 reaches first safely. In her overrun, she breaks for second and then "gives up" far away from the baseline. RULING: If B1 is attempting to reach a base, she must be tagged out, but the fielder is not expected to chase her into the outfield. In the outlined case, B1 is out for giving up. (8-4-2; 8-6-2)

This case play does not apply. The runner is not "far away from the baseline", so there is no ruling of abandoning the attempt to reach a base. Besides, this, also, is not an appeal.

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok coming in late to this party, seems like ya'll got things going pretty good about now. So let me ask you this, on the field I got a runner past first base, and a fielder appearing to make a live ball appeal. In my umpiring mind the only thing I can see is that the fielder is making a live ball appeal of the runner missing first base, or touching the incorrect part of first base. That's the only thing I can think of to rule on an appeal in this situation. So what if we signal safe and say "They touched the base", or something along those lines.

I don't love that idea, but I don't like standing around either, although I have never seen a time where someone didn't do something in a game (I'm a FP guy remember) someone is always gonna throw, tag or run for the most part. But in my offering I ruled on what I thought the fielder was appealing, cause there is nothing else to appeal in the OP so I could see that working too, no coaching but you know I'm not calling anyone out either and if your smart if I didnt' call them out then they are still live to run or be tagged out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

...I got a runner past first base, and a fielder appearing to make a live ball appeal. In my umpiring mind the only thing I can see is that the fielder is making a live ball appeal of the runner missing first base, or touching the incorrect part of first base. That's the only thing I can think of to rule on an appeal in this situation. So what if we signal safe and say "They touched the base", or something along those lines...

The so-called appeal was not for missing the base:

Originally Posted by SC Ump

...F3 while holding the ball steps on 1B and appeals that F3 has made an attempt for second....