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Tom |
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I get that but I am questioning how we knew that is what they were appealing for? Did the F3 say "Mr. Umpire I believe that the runner is obligated to 2nd base thus I am appealing that they should be out since they are off the base and I am holding the ball on the base they should have to return to."?? I guess I don't know how to answer an appeal that really isn't an appealable play during a live ball, thus my answer that I interpert the appeal to be a missed base, or wrong base contacted and I ruled on that appeal since that is the only legit appeal that could be made at that time. Again not sure that is what I would do in a game.....but one way to handle it!
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Tom |
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The counter argument is, "Mr. Umpire, am I prohibited from attempting to advance? If not, and I have already met the requirement to touch 1B prior to being put out, what is there to appeal? I simply attempted to advance to 2B and changed my mind. Is there a rule prohibiting a runner from changing their mind while someone is holding the ball other than the pitcher within the confines of the circle? Again, Mr. Umpire, what is there to appeal?" Under the supposition that this may be a legitimate appeal, a runner who rounded 1B toward 2B could be retired simply by throwing the ball to a defender touching 1B and saying, "Mr. Umpire, I am appealing the runner attempting to advance to 2B". I would love to see any umpire rule the out on appeal as the runner is strolling safely into 2B. You can take all the garbage that has been piled on this, but when it comes down to it, the "appeal" presented in the OP was not a legitimate appeal and there is nothing on which to rule.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Tue Feb 09, 2010 at 09:17pm. |
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Does that mean any erroneous appeal is ignored?
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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The bottom line to this whole mess......
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It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important! |
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He is not the first to miss that in this topic.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Originally Posted by CecilOne ...by 8-7-4-c in the LBR, she must "advance non-stop to second base". LBR is not in effect... F3 has the ball. Oh yeah, I forgot.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Originally Posted by CecilOne "F3 is not expected to chase B2". If so, that could change the outcome. Where is it written? In the case book ruling on abandoning a base. I didn't check 8-6, so didn't see that, but it does not seem abandoning to me. -------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: ABANDONING A BASE 8.6.22 SITUATION A: B1 reaches first safely. In her overrun, she breaks for second and then "gives up" far away from the baseline. RULING: If B1 is attempting to reach a base, she must be tagged out, but the fielder is not expected to chase her into the outfield. In the outlined case, B1 is out for giving up. (8-4-2; 8-6-2) This case play does not apply. The runner is not "far away from the baseline", so there is no ruling of abandoning the attempt to reach a base. Agree, does not apply, so doesn't that mean the fielder has to apply a tag, chasing if needed. ------------------------------------------------------------ Besides, this, also, is not an appeal. It is a live ball appeal if the fielder does apply a tag before the runner reaches a base.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Having now read and studied this thread, if faced with the OP, I would give a quick, waist-level safe mechanic, and maybe say "safe". Some response to an apparent appeal is called for, although not required. Sort of like the 'that's-nothing' quick safe mechanic used when a possible interference or obstruction occurs that is neither. I think saying "improper appeal' in this instance would be slightly coaching.
AltUmpSteve got it right in post #14. I am surprised to learn that softball (Fed and ASA, at least) considers this an appeal play. I would have thought it would be a garden-variety tag-off-the-base play (8-6-2), the BR having lost the overrun protection by not returning directly to first base, a la 8-8-9. (Baseball treats it that way for attempts to advance to second after overrunning first; OBR 7.08(j), Fed 8-4-2-p) For instance, if F3 somehow accidentally tagged BR off the base, I would still have an out. Right? |
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paul, you might be misinterpreting my reply to mike (irish). announcing "improper appeal" is not advisable when the ball is live. but given the scenario, you will most certainly be asked to explain your call when the ball becomes dead or after LBR. you will be asked to explain that the appeal attempt was improper, and a tag on the runner is required.
announcing "ball is live" is unnecessary. but when the live appeal is made, other players, and even coaches may confuse the state of play, and confuse the live appeal for a dead ball appeal. if a subsequent live appeal tag is attempted after the initial appeal call, the umpire might possibly be at the end of blame for any confusion for not clarifying the state of play. Quote:
Last edited by shagpal; Tue Feb 09, 2010 at 06:06pm. |
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Knowing the vitality of the ball is the players' responsibility, assisted by their coaches, and is part of the game. Volunteering whether the ball is live is not my job. If you do, then you would be to blame for coaching. Let players make dumb moves. |
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after your safe call, the smartest player will realize the state of play and make their play. the player that is not as smart and their coach will blame you for their confusion anyways in the aftermath. or imagine this...in the confusion, everyone thinks the ball is already dead including your partner. wouldn't that be ugly.
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I doubt, though not impossible especially with AA, that the runner is going to say, "oh, you want to tag me? hang on, I'll be right there!" ![]()
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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