ASA Pitcher Delay

[IRISHMAFIA]

Idea taken from another board:

Speaking ASA SP (but could be FP depending on lapsed time)

Umpire calls ball on the batter to take the count full. Unhappy pitcher steps toward the plate and tries to stare down the umpire and intentionally allows the catcher's return throw go into center field.

As no one really chasing down the ball, the umpire offers an open hand toward the pitcher, says, "play ball" and sets up behind the catcher. By the time the ball gets back to the infield, nearly 10 seconds passes. Pitchers snaps off the throw from the SS and stomps around a bit.

Umpire rules ball 4 and awards batter 1B. Defense protests what they believe is a misinterpretation of rule 6.3.

As the UIC, how would you rule?

[Tru_in_Blu]

J. The pitcher has 10 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball or after the umpire indicates "play ball".
Technically, the rule doesn't stipulate anything like "whichever comes first/last".

Obviously, the defense would argue that it's 10 seconds after the pitcher gets the ball, regardless of which circumlocation the ball may have taken. The catcher didn't throw it to someone other than the pitcher, which would result in an automatic ball call.

If this was the first time in the game that it happened, I'd be inclined to warn the offending team.

If it was a situation where the tone of the game had been developing for a few innings, and the pitcher was being a Richard Cranium, I might just decide to call a ball. In all likelihood, walks to the parking lot might follow.

As a UIC, which I'm not, I'd probably rule that the defense intentionally allowed their 10 seconds to be squandered, and that after some seconds had passed and the umpire called "Play ball" [to start the 10-second count-down], they should have hustled to retrieve the ball and make the delivery.

Might also depend on the level of the participants. The 12U crowd often has a bit of trouble with the simple task of a catcher retrieving a ball and making a catchable return throw to the pitcher. And even at that, there's no guarantee the pitcher can actually catch the ball.

So in summary: it depends. Right up there on the fence.

[NCASAUmp]

First, I'd want to know what exactly the umpire ruled. Was it 6-3-J? Or was it 7-5-G with no runners on (catcher failing to return the ball to the pitcher)? The latter is quite the reach, but I'd have to have his ruling first before I could make mine.

I'm inclined to agree with Tru_in_Blu. The rule says "OR after the umpire indicates 'play ball.'" If a pitcher is trying to show up the umpire that way, he deserves to have ball 4 called on him without a subsequent pitch thrown.

By rule, I say the umpire was correct. The PU can expect to catch hell from the defense, but if the pitcher pulls those kinds of shenanigans on the field, that's an appropriate way to handle it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Idea taken from another board:

Speaking ASA SP (but could be FP depending on lapsed time)

Umpire calls ball on the batter to take the count full. Unhappy pitcher steps toward the plate and tries to stare down the umpire and intentionally allows the catcher's return throw go into center field.

As no one really chasing down the ball, the umpire offers an open hand toward the pitcher, says, "play ball" and sets up behind the catcher. By the time the ball gets back to the infield, nearly 10 seconds passes. Pitchers snaps off the throw from the SS and stomps around a bit.

Umpire rules ball 4 and awards batter 1B. Defense protests what they believe is a misinterpretation of rule 6.3.

As the UIC, how would you rule?

Protest denied, the rule was applied correctly, your fault your team wanted to show out instead of playing when directed according to the rule. Too bad, so sad, coach.

By the way, coach, you might want to suggest to your pitcher that you got a break; the ball awarded for his little hissy fit costs the team less than the equally earned ejection.

Play ball.

[Dutch Alex]

I've had a man FP-game a view years ago which was soooooooo slow . I was BU that game and realy pi$$ed about how slow it went. Then the second game of the DH came up...
I first told both teams to speed it up. Then, when home-team pitcher was telling his outfield where to stand (don't laugh: it's the highest league it the Neth's), I called "Play Ball". Waited until I've caunted to 10 and then "That's a BALL!"
The next half inning when a batter wasn't ready (same slow home-team) "Batter-up!"... ..."Play Ball" ... ... "That's a STRIKE!"

Hell brake lose, I was to blame and the coach was excused. He got 12 games off! My scorer wrote down all what was thrown to my head by this person and oooh he wouldn't leave the field, kicked dirt and blamed me for 200 years of slavery

I do go along with Steve; sometimes we do have to stand up against this types.

[Stevetheump]

Until the pitcher has possession of the ball, he has 10 seconds to deliver a pitch. I don't think I'd call a "ball" in this situation because it would only inflame the pitcher even more - and that could very well result in an ejection. I might say something (quietly) to the catcher, but, no more than that.
Sometimes, the best call is no call at all.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

Until the pitcher has possession of the ball, he has 10 seconds to deliver a pitch. I don't think I'd call a "ball" in this situation because it would only inflame the pitcher even more - and that could very well result in an ejection. I might say something (quietly) to the catcher, but, no more than that.
Sometimes, the best call is no call at all.

The rule does not state the pitcher must have possession.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The rule does not state the pitcher must have possession.

2009 ASA RuleBook, Rule 6, Section3, J:"The pitcher has 10 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball or after the umpire indicates "play ball."
You were saying Irish.....?
In this particular case, I'm NOT going to indicate "play ball" to further *iss off the pitcher. Like I said in my earlier post, sometimes the best call is no call at all.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

2010 ASA RuleBook, Rule 6, Section3, J:"The pitcher has 10 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball or after the umpire indicates "play ball."
You were saying Irish.....?
In this particular case, I'm NOT going to indicate "play ball" to further *iss off the pitcher. Like I said in my earlier post, sometimes the best call is no call at all.

Just because you choose to avoid pissing off a pitcher (who is showing you up) by not indicating "play ball" does not mean the rule requires possession.

BTW, what's with everything being in bold?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

BTW, what's with everything being in bold?

Thank you for addressing the elephant in the room....or on the board, as the case may be.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Just because you choose to avoid pissing off a pitcher (who is showing you up) by not indicating "play ball" does not mean the rule requires possession.

BTW, what's with everything being in bold?

Just my style, Dakota. And again, I would say something (quietly) to the catcher to help get this situation resolved. Getting in a pissing contest with a player usually does not have a "good" outcome.

[Tru_in_Blu]

The question from the OP is:

Umpire rules ball 4 and awards batter 1B. Defense protests what they believe is a misinterpretation of rule 6.3.

As the UIC, how would you rule?

The issue is not whether you would have called a ball or not. The situation was given and the PU did call a ball. The result was a protested game.

The whole bolding thing to me seems like someone trying to make a statement and wanting to ensure they're being heard. That being the case, and if that's Stevethump's "style", I'd have to question if he could quietly tell the catcher anything. If he gave the catcher a handwritten note, I'd expect it to be bolded.

I do read most of the entries posted here. I don't have a pressing need to reply to every one, even if they are less than five years old.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

[In this particular case, I'm NOT going to indicate "play ball" to further *iss off the pitcher. Like I said in my earlier post, sometimes the best call is no call at all.

And sometimes making no call at all makes a problem for the umpire in the team's next game. I don't ask myself, "Will I piss off this player/coach?" when enforcing a rule, especially if I'm being shown up, but that's just me.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

And sometimes making no call at all makes a problem for the umpire in the team's next game. I don't ask myself, "Will I piss off this player/coach?" when enforcing a rule, especially if I'm being shown up, but that's just me.

Seth - I don't do that, either, but there are different ways to handle any situation:
1. Yeah, you can further *iss the pitcher off by calling "ball 4." That will probably result in his getting in your face and you ejecting him. Now, the situation has ESCALATED to a possible forfeit situation. Or,
2. (Again, quietly) say something to the catcher to have him go out and calm down the pitcher. The pitcher is going to be more "receptive" to the catcher than he would be to you. Now, I have DEFUSED the situation. The pitcher gets a chance to cool down. I get a chance to cool down and nobody has (yet) made a decision that they will later regret.
Getting in a *issing contest with players is NEVER a good thing. Being an umpire requires a good working knowledge of the rules, excellent mechanics,
and knowing when to warn & when to eject.
Okay, off soapbox.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

Seth - I don't do that, either, but there are different ways to handle any situation:
1. Yeah, you can further *iss the pitcher off by calling "ball 4." That will probably result in his getting in your face and you ejecting him. Now, the situation has ESCALATED to a possible forfeit situation. Or,
2. (Again, quietly) say something to the catcher to have him go out and calm down the pitcher. The pitcher is going to be more "receptive" to the catcher than he would be to you. Now, I have DEFUSED the situation. The pitcher gets a chance to cool down. I get a chance to cool down and nobody has (yet) made a decision that they will later regret.
Getting in a *issing contest with players is NEVER a good thing. Being an umpire requires a good working knowledge of the rules, excellent mechanics,
and knowing when to warn & when to eject.
Okay, off soapbox.

Of course not. However, when a player is deliberately showing you up because they didn't like a judgment call, you can't let it slide. If you do, you're now looking more like breakfast to them.