ASA Pitcher Delay

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The rule does not state the pitcher must have possession.

2009 ASA RuleBook, Rule 6, Section3, J:"The pitcher has 10 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball or after the umpire indicates "play ball."
You were saying Irish.....?
In this particular case, I'm NOT going to indicate "play ball" to further *iss off the pitcher. Like I said in my earlier post, sometimes the best call is no call at all.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

2010 ASA RuleBook, Rule 6, Section3, J:"The pitcher has 10 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball or after the umpire indicates "play ball."
You were saying Irish.....?
In this particular case, I'm NOT going to indicate "play ball" to further *iss off the pitcher. Like I said in my earlier post, sometimes the best call is no call at all.

Just because you choose to avoid pissing off a pitcher (who is showing you up) by not indicating "play ball" does not mean the rule requires possession.

BTW, what's with everything being in bold?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

BTW, what's with everything being in bold?

Thank you for addressing the elephant in the room....or on the board, as the case may be.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Just because you choose to avoid pissing off a pitcher (who is showing you up) by not indicating "play ball" does not mean the rule requires possession.

BTW, what's with everything being in bold?

Just my style, Dakota. And again, I would say something (quietly) to the catcher to help get this situation resolved. Getting in a pissing contest with a player usually does not have a "good" outcome.

[Tru_in_Blu]

The question from the OP is:

Umpire rules ball 4 and awards batter 1B. Defense protests what they believe is a misinterpretation of rule 6.3.

As the UIC, how would you rule?

The issue is not whether you would have called a ball or not. The situation was given and the PU did call a ball. The result was a protested game.

The whole bolding thing to me seems like someone trying to make a statement and wanting to ensure they're being heard. That being the case, and if that's Stevethump's "style", I'd have to question if he could quietly tell the catcher anything. If he gave the catcher a handwritten note, I'd expect it to be bolded.

I do read most of the entries posted here. I don't have a pressing need to reply to every one, even if they are less than five years old.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

[In this particular case, I'm NOT going to indicate "play ball" to further *iss off the pitcher. Like I said in my earlier post, sometimes the best call is no call at all.

And sometimes making no call at all makes a problem for the umpire in the team's next game. I don't ask myself, "Will I piss off this player/coach?" when enforcing a rule, especially if I'm being shown up, but that's just me.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

And sometimes making no call at all makes a problem for the umpire in the team's next game. I don't ask myself, "Will I piss off this player/coach?" when enforcing a rule, especially if I'm being shown up, but that's just me.

Seth - I don't do that, either, but there are different ways to handle any situation:
1. Yeah, you can further *iss the pitcher off by calling "ball 4." That will probably result in his getting in your face and you ejecting him. Now, the situation has ESCALATED to a possible forfeit situation. Or,
2. (Again, quietly) say something to the catcher to have him go out and calm down the pitcher. The pitcher is going to be more "receptive" to the catcher than he would be to you. Now, I have DEFUSED the situation. The pitcher gets a chance to cool down. I get a chance to cool down and nobody has (yet) made a decision that they will later regret.
Getting in a *issing contest with players is NEVER a good thing. Being an umpire requires a good working knowledge of the rules, excellent mechanics,
and knowing when to warn & when to eject.
Okay, off soapbox.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

Seth - I don't do that, either, but there are different ways to handle any situation:
1. Yeah, you can further *iss the pitcher off by calling "ball 4." That will probably result in his getting in your face and you ejecting him. Now, the situation has ESCALATED to a possible forfeit situation. Or,
2. (Again, quietly) say something to the catcher to have him go out and calm down the pitcher. The pitcher is going to be more "receptive" to the catcher than he would be to you. Now, I have DEFUSED the situation. The pitcher gets a chance to cool down. I get a chance to cool down and nobody has (yet) made a decision that they will later regret.
Getting in a *issing contest with players is NEVER a good thing. Being an umpire requires a good working knowledge of the rules, excellent mechanics,
and knowing when to warn & when to eject.
Okay, off soapbox.

Of course not. However, when a player is deliberately showing you up because they didn't like a judgment call, you can't let it slide. If you do, you're now looking more like breakfast to them.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

Seth - I don't do that, either, but there are different ways to handle any situation:
1. Yeah, you can further *iss the pitcher off by calling "ball 4." That will probably result in his getting in your face and you ejecting him. Now, the situation has ESCALATED to a possible forfeit situation. Or,

To start, this is the rule, you are being paid to enforce the rule and if you start worrying about how a player is going to react by you doing your job, you will stop doing the job for which you are being paid.

2. (Again, quietly) say something to the catcher to have him go out and calm down the pitcher. The pitcher is going to be more "receptive" to the catcher than he would be to you. Now, I have DEFUSED the situation. The pitcher gets a chance to cool down. I get a chance to cool down and nobody has (yet) made a decision that they will later regret.

Not my problem. If the pitcher is going to be an ***, nothing the umpire does or doesn't do is going to make that change. For that matter, in many circumstances, if the player is trying to intimidate you (and that IS what the player is doing), you may have just raised the bar for him/her and THAT may escalate it that much more.

Getting in a *issing contest with players is NEVER a good thing. Being an umpire requires a good working knowledge of the rules, excellent mechanics, and knowing when to warn & when to eject.
Okay, off soapbox.

Why would an umpire get into a pissing contest with anyone? When was the last time you saw an umpire lose a debate/discussion/argument with a player or coach?

Yeah, as an umpire, you don't WANT to eject anyone. And you do want to defuse any possible volatile situation. However, there are TWO teams on the field and both are paying for the umpire to be there and enforce the rule by which THEY agreed to play. Your feelings are irrelevant to the issue. You are not the one who intentionally allowed the ball to pass into center field and delay the game.

And, yes, the game situation may determine how you handle the situation. But if you allow this pitcher to get away with this stunt, what are you going to let the other pitcher get away with? After all, you don't want to seem unfair, right? Where does it end?

In this case, the OP has already set the play and resolution. You are being asked to rule on the protest as the UIC. And I can tell you that personal feelings or preferences should not factor into your decision.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, this is the rule, you are being paid to enforce the rule and if you start worrying about how a player is going to react by you doing your job, you will stop doing the job for which you are being paid.

Not my problem. If the pitcher is going to be an ***, nothing the umpire does or doesn't do is going to make that change. For that matter, in many circumstances, if the player is trying to intimidate you (and that IS what the player is doing), you may have just raised the bar for him/her and THAT may escalate it that much more.

Why would an umpire get into a pissing contest with anyone? When was the last time you saw an umpire lose a debate/discussion/argument with a player or coach?

Yeah, as an umpire, you don't WANT to eject anyone. And you do want to defuse any possible volatile situation. However, there are TWO teams on the field and both are paying for the umpire to be there and enforce the rule by which THEY agreed to play. Your feelings are irrelevant to the issue. You are not the one who intentionally allowed the ball to pass into center field and delay the game.

And, yes, the game situation may determine how you handle the situation. But if you allow this pitcher to get away with this stunt, what are you going to let the other pitcher get away with? After all, you don't want to seem unfair, right? Where does it end?

In this case, the OP has already set the play and resolution. You are being asked to rule on the protest as the UIC. And I can tell you that personal feelings or preferences should not factor into your decision.

First of all Irish, I don't worry about how a player is going to react.
Second, I am NOT going to stop doing my job. I've been doing my job for over 30 years now and I've gotten pretty good at it.
Third, I am only making a suggestion here. Instead of getting in to a situation that I KNOW will quite probably result in a player getting ejected, I look for an ALTERNATE way to "do my job" and keep him in the game. An ejection is the LAST RESORT between a player and an umpire.

I'm not "letting the pitcher get away" with anything. What I'm saying is, I'm using the catcher to help resolve the situation. Don't be caught with "tunnel vision" and see a difficult situation in only one "light." Also, I realize that "personal feelings" play NO part in resolving a protest. I've been involved in MANY protests and in every one, personal feelings played NO part in resolving it. BTW - I've NEVER lost a protest. If I have to, I'll break out the rule book, find the appropriate rule and show the manager. Now, if he wants to argue with the rule book, oh well.....
If a player "baits" me in to how I respond, then I'm playing his game. That's not going to happen. You umpire leagues long enough, you get to know the players - the good ones, the bad ones and the "wannabes." I've been on the field long enough to know to see it (baiting) coming.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stevetheump

First of all Irish, I don't worry about how a player is going to react.

Yet you posted more than once in a manner which, at least to me, indicates you are. You suggested more than once that you would not make the call that may create a pissing contest with the pitcher.

Second, I am NOT going to stop doing my job. I've been doing my job for over 30 years now and I've gotten pretty good at it.

Congratulations. I'm in my 44th year as I started in 1966 at 14 yo.

Third, I am only making a suggestion here. Instead of getting in to a situation that I KNOW will quite probably result in a player getting ejected, I look for an ALTERNATE way to "do my job" and keep him in the game. An ejection is the LAST RESORT between a player and an umpire.

An ejection has nothing to do with the umpire. Either the player crosses a line or not. The umpire is not ejecting anyone without cause. It has often been stated that umpires don't throw out players, players throw themselves out. In most of the cases, that is a very accurate comment.

I'm not "letting the pitcher get away" with anything. What I'm saying is, I'm using the catcher to help resolve the situation. Don't be caught with "tunnel vision" and see a difficult situation in only one "light." Also, I realize that "personal feelings" play NO part in resolving a protest. I've been involved in MANY protests and in every one, personal feelings played NO part in resolving it. BTW - I've NEVER lost a protest. If I have to, I'll break out the rule book, find the appropriate rule and show the manager. Now, if he wants to argue with the rule book, oh well.....
If a player "baits" me in to how I respond, then I'm playing his game. That's not going to happen. You umpire leagues long enough, you get to know the players - the good ones, the bad ones and the "wannabes." I've been on the field long enough to know to see it (baiting) coming.

Yep, just as I teach it, but you're still talking about what you would or wouldn't do. This isn't about you, it is about the call and whether the umpire's ruling was within the parameters of the given rules.

So far, you have done everything, but answer the question asked.

BTW, since we are keeping score, I've only had one protest and my call was upheld.

[Stevetheump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yet you posted more than once in a manner which, at least to me, indicates you are. You suggested more than once that you would not make the call that may create a pissing contest with the pitcher.

It is quite evident, at least to me, that we have different umpiring "styles." So be it. If what you do works for you, fine. I'll do what works for me.

Congratulations. I'm in my 44th year as I started in 1966 at 14 yo.

Congratulations.

An ejection has nothing to do with the umpire. Either the player crosses a line or not. The umpire is not ejecting anyone without cause. It has often been stated that umpires don't throw out players, players throw themselves out. In most of the cases, that is a very accurate comment.

I believe the same as you do - "players/coaches eject themselves - I just let them know they did it."

Yep, just as I teach it, but you're still talking about what you would or wouldn't do. This isn't about you, it is about the call and whether the umpire's ruling was within the parameters of the given rules.

I would say the umpire's ruling WAS within the parameters of the given rules. Are you happy now?

So far, you have done everything, but answer the question asked.

I believe I did (above).

BTW, since we are keeping score, I've only had one protest and my call was upheld.

ONE protest in 44 years?