3' running lane violation on BB?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

But I do agree- in fastpitch, where the Look Back Rule comes into play, usually the best defense is to just fire the ball back to the pitcher. That forces the runner on third to commit one way or the other and that will usually get her back on third. It also prevents the runner rounding first from doing any real dancing around and forces her to get back on first or advance to second without delay.

That is the best defense in all situations in all games. NO one defender is closer to all the locations of a possible play than the pitcher. NO one defender is going to have the shortest throw than the pitcher.

And the problem is many coaches all think they can come up with some sort of new play that no one has ever tried before and it just isn't there.

IMO, the only reason the INT on a BR that has been walked arose is because some catcher was dumb enough to hit the BR on the way to 1B where there was no play and the coach, being the all-american that s/he he is, had to find someone to blame for it and sold that bill of goods to some putz.

[RKBUmp]

I have a coach royaly ticked at me from a game last night over the this type of play.

Runner on 3, batter is walked rounds 1st and takes off for 2nd. Ball was thrown right back to the pitcher and no attempt was made on the BR. Runner on 3 is just standing there doing nothing. I killed the play, called the runner out for the LB violation and put the BR back at 1st. Coach is just standing there with his jaw on the ground and all the parents are going nuts. The coach finally came over and asked me to explain the call. I gave him a brief explanation of the look back requirements and he walked away still looking bewildered.

[Snocatzdad]

RKBUmp that is the call that needs to be made more often. I've seen the runner on third retreat, then lead off again all while ball is in the circle and everyone (including umpires) is so fascinated with girl streaking from 1b to 2b that they miss the violation on 3B. My girls have been guilty of this as well and not been called out, but the fact that they should have been called out usually results in a minor heart attack for the 3B coach who will specifically remind them that they LBR is in effect. That's the problem with confusion plays, sometimes you confuse yourself

BTW when I say ball in the circle I mean that no attempt to make a play is being made, so LBR is in effect.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I have a coach royaly ticked at me from a game last night over the this type of play.

Runner on 3, batter is walked rounds 1st and takes off for 2nd. Ball was thrown right back to the pitcher and no attempt was made on the BR. Runner on 3 is just standing there doing nothing. I killed the play, called the runner out for the LB violation and put the BR back at 1st. Coach is just standing there with his jaw on the ground and all the parents are going nuts. The coach finally came over and asked me to explain the call. I gave him a brief explanation of the look back requirements and he walked away still looking bewildered.

"I killed the play, called the runner out for the LB violation and put the BR back at 1st."

Is this an ASA rule? or some other codes for that matter?

In NSA, the ball is not dead on LBR violation. Runner at third would be out and ball is still live and BR is liable to be put out, but may run to second or return to first subject to LBR for the BR.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by robbie

In NSA, the ball is not dead on LBR violation.

NSA fast pitch rule 9-1, The ball is dead and not in play:

g. When a baserunner fails to keep in contact with their base until
the pitched ball leaves the pitcher's hand.

[Dakota]

That's leaving early, not LBR.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I know nothing about NSA. If it stays live, it is one of a kind.

But in ASA, NFHS, NCAA, and ISF, a LBR violation is a dead ball.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I know nothing about NSA. If it stays live, it is one of a kind.

But in ASA, NFHS, NCAA, and ISF, a LBR violation is a dead ball.

In YSISF, it's a dead ball and a dead runner.
________
Keishaass cam

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by youngump

In YSISF, it's a dead ball and a dead runner.

I thought it was a live grenade and a dead runner. I gotta go back to the rule books!

[robbie]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I know nothing about NSA. If it stays live, it is one of a kind.

But in ASA, NFHS, NCAA, and ISF, a LBR violation is a dead ball.

Well........... Guess thats a good thing for the NSA. At lease we can get multiple outs for LBR violation on the same play. Apparently, other codes cannot.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by robbie

Well........... Guess thats a good thing for the NSA. At lease we can get multiple outs for LBR violation on the same play. Apparently, other codes cannot.

I don't know NSA; have never called an NSA game. With that caveat, the idea that the ball is live after a look back violation in NSA got me interested, so I looked up the rule book and the case book.

The rule book does not state that the ball is dead in the look back rule (8-8-x); it doesn't state that it is live, either. Likewise, the look back rule is not mentioned in the "dead ball" rule (9-1), but neither is it mentioned in the "ball in play" rule (9-2).

HOWEVER, it is mentioned in the Case Book, in the two case plays under the 8.8x cases where an out is recorded, the ruling says the ball is dead. It also says only one out may be recorded on the LBR.

8.8x In Fastpitch, Look Back Rule: R1 leaves 3B legally, R2 leaves 2B legally, B1 walks, F2 returns the ball directly to F1 who is in the circle, R1 & R2 stand still off base as F1 watches B1 round 1B.

Ruling: 8.8.x Dead Ball, R1 is out. Once B1 reaches 1B both R1 & R2 must return or advance. However, only one out may be recorded on this play.

8.8x In Fastpitch, Look Back Rule: B1 hits the ball to F4; B1 is safe at 1B; B1 overruns 1B and circles to the right. The ball is returned to F1 in the 16 foot circle. B1 breaks toward 2B.

Ruling: 8.8.x Dead Ball, B1 is out. When B1 turned right, B1 was committed to returning to 1B.

[BlitzkriegBob]

Tom beat me to the punch, and nailed it of course. Robbie, this is only my first year doing NSA, but I find nothing to support keeping the ball live in the rule book or case book. I'll email Terri (if I remember correctly you're also from Indiana) to ask her if I'm wrong, but I believe NSA treats the LBR the same as every other code.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

IMO, the only reason the INT on a BR that has been walked arose is because some catcher was dumb enough to hit the BR on the way to 1B where there was no play and the coach, being the all-american that s/he he is, had to find someone to blame for it and sold that bill of goods to some putz.

Yep, that about sums it up pretty nicely.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Yep, that about sums it up pretty nicely.

The board was more lively when Wade and Irish argued about everything instead of agreeing with each other.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...IMO, the only reason the INT on a BR that has been walked arose is because ...someone... sold that bill of goods to some putz.

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...because Mary Struckhoff says so.

.... OK.