What Am I Missing?

[argodad]

Perusing the November issue of Referee magazine, I took a look at the softball Case Plays.

In the second one, F1 commits an illegal pitch and R1 then leaves first "just before the pitch is released." Jay Miner's answer is that you basically ignore the leaving early and enforce the IP. (If the batter puts the ball in play, the OC gets to choose the play or the penalty, plus any other enforcements, depending on the code).

I think that as soon as the BU sees R1 leaving early and says, "No Pitch!" then any further action is moot. Ball on the batter and all runners advance one base.

Am i missing something?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by argodad

Perusing the November issue of Referree magazine, I took a look at the softball Case Plays.

In the second one, F1 commits an illegal pitch and R1 then leaves first "just before the pitch is released." Jay Miner's answer is that you basically ignore the leaving early and enforce the IP. (If the batter puts the ball in play, the OC gets to choose the play or the penalty, plus any other enforcements, depending on the code).

I think that as soon as the BU sees R1 leaving early and says, "No Pitch!" then any further action is moot. Ball on the batter and all runners advance one base.

Am i missing something?

No. Amateur Softball Association of America (ASA)
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Nexium Lawyer

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by argodad

Perusing the November issue of Referree magazine, I took a look at the softball Case Plays.

In the second one, F1 commits an illegal pitch and R1 then leaves first "just before the pitch is released." Jay Miner's answer is that you basically ignore the leaving early and enforce the IP. (If the batter puts the ball in play, the OC gets to choose the play or the penalty, plus any other enforcements, depending on the code).

I think that as soon as the BU sees R1 leaving early and says, "No Pitch!" then any further action is moot. Ball on the batter and all runners advance one base.

Am i missing something?

Referee Magazine has a notorious history of messing up softball case plays. Anything you read there, take with a grain of salt. Then, pull out the books and investigate.

[Snocatzdad]

What if the illegal pitch ruling precedes the left early in the following manner

Pitcher does two windmills (runner leaves on what they thought was release on first windmill ASA 6.3.D) In that case the illegal pitch causes them to leave early and I believe it would be correct to allow the offense to choose the results of the play.

I guess the crux is that it's likely for the pitch to be illegal before release so it's possible that the infraction on the pitch is prior to the infraction on the base.

I would think minimally you would allow the offense to choose the result of the play or a ball and runners advance. With that result being that you called the runner on base out for leaving early and they probably wouldn't want to keep that result and would take the ball and advancement.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by Snocatzdad

What if the illegal pitch ruling precedes the left early in the following manner

Pitcher does two windmills (runner leaves on what they thought was release on first windmill ASA 6.3.D) In that case the illegal pitch causes them to leave early and I believe it would be correct to allow the offense to choose the results of the play.

I guess the crux is that it's likely for the pitch to be illegal before release so it's possible that the infraction on the pitch is prior to the infraction on the base.

I would think minimally you would allow the offense to choose the result of the play or a ball and runners advance. With that result being that you called the runner on base out for leaving early and they probably wouldn't want to keep that result and would take the ball and advancement.

Your 4th paragraph answered your question (statement) in paragraph 2.

Result of play is dead ball, runner out for leaving early. Your choice coach..................

[Snocatzdad]

Your right, I misread the initial post. I though he was saying as soon as he saw movement on the runner "No pitch" and called runner out despite illegal pitch.

[Steve M]

Didn't we talk about this a couple of years ago?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Snocatzdad

Your right, I misread the initial post. I though he was saying as soon as he saw movement on the runner "No pitch" and called runner out despite illegal pitch.

So did I. Consequently, when I said you weren't missing anything I was wrong. The runner is out despite the illegal pitch. See the linked case play (which is why we discussed this last year).
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HotBellaXXX

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by robbie

Your 4th paragraph answered your question (statement) in paragraph 2.

Result of play is dead ball, runner out for leaving early. Your choice coach..................

Speaking ASA, according to the interpretation linked to above by youngump, the coach's choice option does not nullify the runner being out for leaving early. That out stands, regardless. And, since the leaving early resulted in a dead ball, there are no other aspects of the play to be considered. If there are other runners, they receive the base award, and the batter is awarded a ball. The runner who left early is out.

Also, argodad, what you were missing was the credibility of Referee on softball rulings is worse than your average coach.

Did Referee specify a specific rule book?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Also, argodad, what you were missing was the credibility of Referee on softball rulings is worse than your average coach.

Is it Referee or .......?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota;Did [I

Referee [/I]specify a specific rule book?

Given the writer, probably OBR.

The subtlety some are missing is the timing of when the ball becomes dead. An IP is normally a delayed dead, so the "leave early" applies as the ball is still live until that infraction, even if the IP is committed first.
The other side is an IP that is IDB, like the 20 second limit. If that occurs, it could be before the "leave early".

OK, my question is whether a "no pitch" can be treated as an IP if the pitch didn't occur? IOW, which takes precedence?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Bob Newhart: Hello? Oh, hello, is this the Third World?
Phone Voice: Why, yes sir, it is. However, some day we are going to be #2, We Try Harder!
Bob Newhart: Really? You guys have rental car companies?
Phone Voice: Of course, we do, we are the Third World, not the Lost World. Why do you ask?
Bob Newhart: Nevermind, that isn't why I called.
Phone Voice: Then why did you call?
Bob Newhart: Well, I was just wondering around this web site of the goofy folks who think the know how to umpire softball games. You know, sometimes I wonder where they ever came up with some of the moves they make flailing their arms all over t....
Phone Voice: Sir...SIR!!!...the reason you called?
Bob Newhart: Oh, sorry. Well, I came across this simple little play and there were real simple answer and then one of your guys snuck in there somehow and I just hate seeing people beat the hell out of some Third World Play.