What am I missing?

[TexBlue]

This happened to a friend of mine, who was calling the plate in Bryan, TX at the ASA 14-U B Nationals.

The batter hits a grounder that strikes 3rd base, bounces off and rolls into the dugout. My friend ruled Fair Ball, Dead Ball, and awarded 2nd to the batter. His UIC told him he blew it, that that should have been a foul ball.

Now, Rule 1, Fair Ball, E says if the ball strikes 1st 2nd or 3rd base, it's a fair ball. Is there something I'm missing here?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by TexBlue
This happened to a friend of mine, who was calling the plate in Bryan, TX at the ASA 14-U B Nationals.

The batter hits a grounder that strikes 3rd base, bounces off and rolls into the dugout. My friend ruled Fair Ball, Dead Ball, and awarded 2nd to the batter. His UIC told him he blew it, that that should have been a foul ball.

Now, Rule 1, Fair Ball, E says if the ball strikes 1st 2nd or 3rd base, it's a fair ball. Is there something I'm missing here?

Unless they had a double-base at 3rd and the ball hit the colored portion, sounds like your friend got it right.

[BretMan]

Ah, the old "this happened to a friend of mine" routine. Fess up, TexBlue, that was your call in your game, wasn't it!

(Just kidding with you.)

If things happened exactly as you stated (after all, you're getting a second-hand account from your "friend") you...I mean, "your friend"...got it right.

I would absolutely love to hear the UIC's explaination of how this call was "blown" and what justification he would have for calling this a foul ball. Good fiction amuses me!

[CecilOne]

The UIC must be thinking that the ball didn't pass 3rd, as in "struck the ground in fair terr and went foul before reaching the base". Maybe he/she didn't listen.

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by BretMan
Ah, the old "this happened to a friend of mine" routine. Fess up, TexBlue, that was your call in your game, wasn't it!

(Just kidding with you.)

If things happened exactly as you stated (after all, you're getting a second-hand account from your "friend") you...I mean, "your friend"...got it right.

I would absolutely love to hear the UIC's explaination of how this call was "blown" and what justification he would have for calling this a foul ball. Good fiction amuses me!

Shucks, I get enough screwy situations without having to shanghai someone else's. Actually I was a little farther south in Harlingen at the PONY Nationals that week. (Glen, you can have all that weather you want. I woke up 2 or 3 days, thinking I was in Louisiana.)

I got this situation in an email this morning and I thought I'd see what I might be missing. There was no reason given. Richard Crocker was the UIC and I've always considered him as very good. I thought there might be some situation in the Case Book or some part of the rule I had forgotten or overlooked. Like you, I thought he might have gotten mixed up ( You know how UIC's can get in the middle of big tournaments) and just thought because it never crossed 3rd base, it was a foul ball.

I'm trying to get an answer back from Wayne (the PU) as to what reason he was given. I'm sure he got one. He's kinda like me, if he's told he blew a rule, there's gonna be some Rule Books coming out to discuss it with, in the Umpire's dress area. While you can tell me I'm right without proving it, you just need to back up the comment if you tell me I'm wrong.

[whiskers_ump]

Rick,

Who was the UIC at the 14U Tournament?

E-mail me if desired. Listed on profile.....

glen

[milkmandog]

rick,
why didn't you bring this up at the pancake house. i don't remember this play
bj

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Am I to take it that you too have had problems with Mr. Crocker?

I don't know about them but I had a few strange exchanges with Richard last year while I was in Texas.
Nothing major but they were definately unique.

I think maybe the smoke from his cigars cloud his thinking or maybe those cigars have just a biiiittttt of something in them.

hehe

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by milkmandog
rick,
why didn't you bring this up at the pancake house. i don't remember this play
bj

Naw, this was at Bryan. Wayne Giles went to the ASA 14-U B. You know if it had happened at our tournament, there would have been some discussion. Kinda like that obstruction interpretation.

[Edited by TexBlue on Aug 11th, 2005 at 06:59 PM]

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
[QUOTEFella's, I think we are getting a bit off line here, and we are entering a discomfort zone. This is a softball rules and mechanics discussion board. We don't name names or deal with personalities of individuals. That should apply to our UIC's as well as our umpire partners.

Other boards have lost credibility and members for those reasons. We certainly aren't there, but we are headed in that general direction with this thread. JMHO.

Good point. Might I suggest the posters delete those comments?

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by CecilOne

Good point. Might I suggest the posters delete those comments?

While this wasn't the intent of my thread, I feel like I'm getting some good input from people with experience on this subject/person. Any valuable input on this board is always a good thing, not just rules and mechanics, but other things also. I remamber a thread a few months ago about an umpire who was thinking of hanging up his mask because of the people he was calling with all the time. Kinda gave me the impression I might not be comfortable over there either.

Besides, like my daddy always said, " If it's true, don't worry about it! "

Why is it that this thread is causing so much concern, when one of the " gurus " on this board will occasionally bash and ridicule statements and people and only a few mild objections are raised about thosse comments? Don't see much difference.

[AtlUmpSteve]

The difference I see is when we are bashing someone who isn't part of the discussion; remembering you started with a hearsay report of what another umpire told you that happened and what the UIC then told him. Obviously, if that was all completely correct, then the UIC was wrong.

But, we have no way of knowing, Crocker isn't part of the discussion, and hasn't directly said or done anything. Yet we are naming him and now casting for other cases where umpires have disagreed with him.

There is a reason why hearsay is not legal testimony. And, I see a difference in bashing someone who may have been completely correct, may have been misquoted, may have been taken out of context, and can't respond appropriately. That is different than what you cite (although I sometimes wonder why that approach is taken, too, I have also been accused of being rude, when I felt my responses were not inappropriate).

I'm not from Texas, but I know Crocker from National meetings and the Advanced School several years ago. He has an authoritative air about him; and you certainly could be accurate. But, I just don't want to see this forum lowered to that level; I'm not protecting him, I am protecting our ability to converse in a meaningful and educated way, without resorting to namecalling.

Just my opinion.

[whiskers_ump]

As requested, I deleted my post in reference to the named UIC.

[whiskers_ump]

In order for a couple of my post to be deleted, others will have delete their responses to my post.