How to "call" a ball not caught?

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, there is no valid answer to Ronald's question since you do not know if the coach would have come out to discuss a non-call if you did not offer the safe sign.



Yes, just as is a DDB or Deadball signal, or lack of one.

I am not a fan of extraneous signals by umpires. Have I given an unnecessary signal? Sure, but usually beat myself up when I do it.

Just because you have a group of softball gods come up with something new doesn't mean everyone has to like it, accept it and sit back with a smile and pretend everything is peachy keen.

But if a group of softball (or base****) gods come up with something new and someone does like it and accept it...they have the right to sit back with a smile and implement it into their game. Even "Little Johnny" would agree with that?

I do agree with the chance for a valid answer being hard to determine

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

.... The offense has designated coaches to direct the runners (many of whom haven't the slightest idea how to coach) and defenders are not lacking in help from teammates. Step up and give a safe signal.

Why? Applying your philosophy to this situation no catch = no signal. Nothing has happened except the ball hitting the ground right? Fair/foul- same thing. Why signal fair?

The difference is where the "I got nothing" safe signal came from. I'm sure you have agreed with a college mechanic at some time on here, I just haven't been able to find it.

[topper]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

Signaling "SAFE" looks to much on a baseball-machanic, IMO, so there's onter reason why I'm not willing to use that machanic. I'm a softball-ump. not a small-baller.

So do you avoid using any signal that is used in baseball?

I have heard this from quite a number of softball officials and find it difficult to imagine a more lame reason for the way we officiate a softball game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

But if a group of softball (or base****) gods come up with something new and someone does like it and accept it...they have the right to sit back with a smile and implement it into their game. Even "Little Johnny" would agree with that?

And many of these people at one time thought that prior to the start of an inning the base umpire should clean the PP while the plate umpire cleaned HP and they should break in unison and hustle back to their position.

These same people at one time suggested that when there were multiple base umpires, both were to go to a set position simultaneously.

Umpires once used to hold that arm out for OBS and run around the field like a one-winged chicken.

And the mirroring of the plate umpire when calling time! For chrissakes, will someone PLEASE kill this UNAUTHORIZED (at least, in ASA) mechanic. Haven't used it in more than a decade unless there was a defender or runner still active in my area of the field. However, there are still some old school folks including a failure to do this in an umpire's ratings from a national. How can you gig an umpire for not performing a mechanic that is not in the manual? A game using a 3 or 4 umpire system.....oh, wait, we cannot use a 4-umpire system because it isn't in the manual ...okay, a 3-umpire system and all at one time every umpire throws their arms into the air as if Jesse James just appeared with a gun.

We, also, used to return to a set position after a play was over only to look like an idiot staring at an empty base as all the players are already moving back into position.

Then there is the Elbeco shirt which, if you wanted a good rating, better have a military press. And let us not forget the patent leather belts and shoes of which the umpires were so proud. Umpires at one time, also, wore ties and jackets. Yeah, love to have to have been in that uniform in August in OKC!

So, after all these years of trying to minimalize the umpire's visability on the field, these "gods" have determined it is best to begin using what can only be described as preemptive signals to communicate what one did not see? Yeah, it would be easier to sell me on a timing play indicator than this.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Mike, I'm of the opinion that this is a good signal. Very much like the "play on" verbal in a different game. It lets those who need to know that you've seen "it" and you've got a nothing.

Are you suggesting the "underswing of both arms" instead of the safe signal?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

... snip ...
Yeah, it would be easier to sell me on a timing play indicator than this.

Well, that's a sign pf progress!

[SergioJ]

Just a thought. The OP called for ball hit in the infield. My situation/mechanic question is: In a 3-Umpire system, ball hit to the outfield. BU goes out (per mechanics). Ball hits the ground PRIOR to going into fielder's glove. Does the BU give a SAFE signal (implying no catch), or does he/she just stand there? If he/she does give a NO CATCH signal, then why is this different than the OP? Again, just asking to see if I have been using the wrong mechanic (wouldn't be a first).

Serg

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

Just a thought. The OP called for ball hit in the infield. My situation/mechanic question is: In a 3-Umpire system, ball hit to the outfield. BU goes out (per mechanics). Ball hits the ground PRIOR to going into fielder's glove. Does the BU give a SAFE signal (implying no catch), or does he/she just stand there? If he/she does give a NO CATCH signal, then why is this different than the OP? Again, just asking to see if I have been using the wrong mechanic (wouldn't be a first).

Serg

I don't believe there has been any disagreement offering a safe sign for a trapped/near trapped ball in either the IF or OF.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And many of these people at one time thought that prior to the start of an inning the base umpire should clean the PP while the plate umpire cleaned HP and they should break in unison and hustle back to their position.

These same people at one time suggested that when there were multiple base umpires, both were to go to a set position simultaneously.

Umpires once used to hold that arm out for OBS and run around the field like a one-winged chicken.

And the mirroring of the plate umpire when calling time! For chrissakes, will someone PLEASE kill this UNAUTHORIZED (at least, in ASA) mechanic. Haven't used it in more than a decade unless there was a defender or runner still active in my area of the field. However, there are still some old school folks including a failure to do this in an umpire's ratings from a national. How can you gig an umpire for not performing a mechanic that is not in the manual? A game using a 3 or 4 umpire system.....oh, wait, we cannot use a 4-umpire system because it isn't in the manual ...okay, a 3-umpire system and all at one time every umpire throws their arms into the air as if Jesse James just appeared with a gun.

We, also, used to return to a set position after a play was over only to look like an idiot staring at an empty base as all the players are already moving back into position.

Then there is the Elbeco shirt which, if you wanted a good rating, better have a military press. And let us not forget the patent leather belts and shoes of which the umpires were so proud. Umpires at one time, also, wore ties and jackets. Yeah, love to have to have been in that uniform in August in OKC!

So, after all these years of trying to minimalize the umpire's visability on the field, these "gods" have determined it is best to begin using what can only be described as preemptive signals to communicate what one did not see? Yeah, it would be easier to sell me on a timing play indicator than this.

Great list!! Thank goodness for progress!!!

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Are you suggesting the "underswing of both arms" instead of the safe signal?

Cecil,
No, not at all. If I'm using a signal, I want it understood.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Great list!! Thank goodness for progress!!!

Yep, as long as it is moving toward the positive, something we don't see much of anymore.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And the mirroring of the plate umpire when calling time! For chrissakes, will someone PLEASE kill this UNAUTHORIZED (at least, in ASA) mechanic. Haven't used it in more than a decade unless there was a defender or runner still active in my area of the field. However, there are still some old school folks including a failure to do this in an umpire's ratings from a national. How can you gig an umpire for not performing a mechanic that is not in the manual?

I may be mistaken, but I do believe I read in the package sent to me this year from OKC that at the Nationals, base umpires "may" mirror the plate umpire's signal for time.

At the NUS, we were instructed to only do it if circumstances require it (such as a runner still going full steam after the PU has called "time" 15 times).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I may be mistaken, but I do believe I read in the package sent to me this year from OKC that at the Nationals, base umpires "may" mirror the plate umpire's signal for time.

At the NUS, we were instructed to only do it if circumstances require it (such as a runner still going full steam after the PU has called "time" 15 times).

Yes, I've seen this year's letter. And the letters include "may" or "can", but it is not in the manual. I have little doubt this is because there are some areas where the older mechanics are still lingering because it's "just the way we do it."

However, I have received calls from Nationals asking me about this because this person said this or that. I'm talking about member of the NUS or a tournament asst. UIC, with shock in their voice when I say we haven't used it for more than a decade except as you not above, when necessary. Otherwise, it is just another unnecessary signal with an umpire standing still in the middle of the infield while those around him/her are moving into position to resume play.

Please note that I am not stating the signal should scrapped. It is necessary at times when there are still players active or looking for an indication the play is done as Dave cited from the school.

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by topper

So do you avoid using any signal that is used in baseball?

I have heard this from quite a number of softball officials and find it difficult to imagine a more lame reason for the way we officiate a softball game.

Off course not! However those "typical for baseball" (as a pointed strike to the side instead of a hamered one) I avoid.

Does you question mean, that you think softball is "baseball for girls"? It sure does sound like that!

The two sports, imo, have common roots but are complete different. Just as poker and black-jack...

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't believe there has been any disagreement offering a safe sign for a trapped/near trapped ball in either the IF or OF.

O Irish, I think Serg hamered it right on the nail!
If, and in 3-umpire system (or less) I rather do not [different discussion], a BU goes out for the outfield to call the (nearly) trapped hitted ball he CAN/MUST use the safe signal. In the infield, however, I prefer "the fair hitted ball"-signal for a just uncaught ball.