2020, anyone?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Who is this "they" of whom you speak?

Uh, ASA.

Originally Posted by Dakota

It is easy to speak of "ASA" as some monolith of power over softball, but in reality it is nothing more than the people who meet and vote on such things.

Let's see . . . the National Governing Body of Softball? Oh, you are right, they are nothing more than USSSA, USFA, ISA, LL, Pony, and the LSOTPHFCCSA (that is, the Little Sisters of the Poor Home for Crippled Children's Softball Association)

Originally Posted by Dakota

If I read the earlier posts correctly, this issue has never been reported out of the JO committee. I would seem, as with Pogo, the JO coaches have met the enemy, and it is them...

Nice try with the Pogo comparison. At the 2001 Gold Nationals, in Marietta, GA at the coaches meeting the question was asked, "Should college players be allowed?", It looked like every coach voted NO, as I did not see one hand go up in the affirmative. But we still have the status quo. So much for listening up.

Like Pogo, you are living in a cartoon world, where reality is often imitated, but reality is often denied.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

At the 2001 Gold Nationals, in Marietta, GA at the coaches meeting the question was asked, "Should college players be allowed?", It looked like every coach voted NO, as I did not see one hand go up in the affirmative. But we still have the status quo. So much for listening up.

Yes, the status quo was kept by the same coaches you seem to be citing 8 years later. Of course, you are providing one-sided, incomplete data. I would be curous as to how many of those coaches had college ball players on their roster.

Again, proving the MY point that if the 18U coaches did not recruit and roster college players there would be no college players in 18U.

How many different ways can you take this without it coming back to the coaches?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yes, the status quo was kept by the same coaches you seem to be citing 8 years later. Of course, you are providing one-sided, incomplete data. I would be curous as to how many of those coaches had college ball players on their roster.

What? I would be curious to know how many of the Gold coaches in attendance and voting are on the JO Committee. I don't remember her name, but it was the National JO Commissioner at the time, Patty? Cindy?

How does a unanimous vote not get out of Committee?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Again, proving the MY point that if the 18U coaches did not recruit and roster college players there would be no college players in 18U.

Rule #1 of Military Strategy: No matter what the outcome, declare victory. Good grief sir, how can you be that far off?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

How many different ways can you take this without it coming back to the coaches?

I only need one lucid thought from you, Until then....about as many as you can try to manufacture.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

At any rate, we are WAY over stating these college players. The ones playing gold are freshman, usually with little playing time, and most are on a 25% +/- ride. Only a very few elite pitchers and VERY VERY few others are 100% free ride.

This is also true of baseball where a teams get less than 12 scholarships to cover the entire roster. You make a good point and I wonder how many softball players see the full rides being given out in football and basketball and think that's what they will get as well.

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

What? I would be curious to know how many of the Gold coaches in attendance and voting are on the JO Committee. I don't remember her name, but it was the National JO Commissioner at the time, Patty? Cindy?

How does a unanimous vote not get out of Committee?

Well, like you said, that was 8 years ago, so you'd have to go back and track them all down to find out how many of them were on the committee. All I really know about the behind the scenes work of ASA is what I read from Mike and others here, but it seems like this issue was/is a big deal to a lot of coaches. Okay, haven't these coaches been around long enough to know who is in a position to present their concerns to ASA? If so, why didn't enough coaches talk to members of the committee about the changes they would like to see?

Or to use an analogy: If I don't like the quality of my association's training, complaining about it to some buddies is fine, but if I want the quality of training to improve I know which officers I need to give my feedback to. Do the coaches really not know who to talk to in their situation?

[tcannizzo]

OK, you win. Glad to have this all in writing,

[tcannizzo]

Study: College athletes are full-time workers
Read the full story:
Study: College athletes are full-time workers - USATODAY.com

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Study: College athletes are full-time workers
Read the full story:
Study: College athletes are full-time workers - USATODAY.com

Oh, wait a minute, this changes everything............NOT!

BFD, an 18 month old article in the USAToday that does nothing more than state that the student-athlete works outside the team structure voluntarily, just as is done in HS and travel ball, just not to the same extreme unless a private prep school which specializes in a particular sport.

But it still has absolutely NOTHING to do with an 18yo playing on an 18U team.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Uh, ASA.



Let's see . . . the National Governing Body of Softball? Oh, you are right, they are nothing more than USSSA, USFA, ISA, LL, Pony, and the LSOTPHFCCSA (that is, the Little Sisters of the Poor Home for Crippled Children's Softball Association)




Nice try with the Pogo comparison. At the 2001 Gold Nationals, in Marietta, GA at the coaches meeting the question was asked, "Should college players be allowed?", It looked like every coach voted NO, as I did not see one hand go up in the affirmative. But we still have the status quo. So much for listening up.

Like Pogo, you are living in a cartoon world, where reality is often imitated, but reality is often denied.

OK, name some names.... WHO are these evil people? ASA is not a monolith (that would be a single massive whole in case you're missing the analogy), but a collection of people organized into differing roles and responsibilities. The people who make and continue to make this incredibly stupid decision to have eligibility to play at 18U be decided by, oh, what... oh, yeah... AGE... are the same people who actually coaching, etc., the JO game. Yet, it keeps being blamed on the big, bad, ASA. I guess that makes it easier to blame slow pitch instead of their own colleagues in JO fastpitch.

Whether or not it is unfair to have college freshmen playing in the same age division as HS seniors is a question for the JO people to work out for themselves.

Oh, that's right, that is who IS making these decisions.

But it is easier to rail against the faceless ASA.