How would you rule this obstruction call?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

What defines "would have reached?"

In short, the umpire defines it. It is up to the judgment of the umpire, and the umpire, alone. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for your ridiculous scenario of mass carnage, that's just a whole bunch of silliness that isn't worth my time. Go get a rulebook and read rule #10-4-G.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In short, the umpire defines it. It is up to the judgment of the umpire, and the umpire, alone. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for your ridiculous scenario of mass carnage, that's just a whole bunch of silliness that isn't worth my time. Go get a rulebook and read rule #10-4-G.

Got me, in my quest to ask, as stated, an extreme extreme scenario, I overlooked the injury rule.

Let me try this again with a more mundane example. 0 outs, LHB, OF shifts to pull, batter hits a little duck snort to LF, the BR is thinking double all the way, the LF sprints over, cuts the ball off, and when throwing to second, airmails it, and the ball rolls all the way to the fence. The runner runs into the 1B, maybe tweaks a hammy or rolls an ankle and stumbles into 2B and stays on 2B, not wanting to risk anything going for 3rd with 0 outs. But since the ball rolled all the way to the fence along the 1st base line, and the 1B was not properly backing up the play (ie had to chase down the ball), would you award the BR 3B since a "healthy" un OBS'ed runner would have made it there?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Got me, in my quest to ask, as stated, an extreme extreme scenario, I overlooked the injury rule.

Let me try this again with a more mundane example. 0 outs, LHB, OF shifts to pull, batter hits a little duck snort to LF, the BR is thinking double all the way, the LF sprints over, cuts the ball off, and when throwing to second, airmails it, and the ball rolls all the way to the fence. The runner runs into the 1B, maybe tweaks a hammy or rolls an ankle and stumbles into 2B and stays on 2B, not wanting to risk anything going for 3rd with 0 outs. But since the ball rolled all the way to the fence along the 1st base line, and the 1B was not properly backing up the play (ie had to chase down the ball), would you award the BR 3B since a "healthy" un OBS'ed runner would have made it there?

The OBS rule states that the runner is awarded the base they would have reached (again, in the judgment of the umpire) had the OBS not occurred. In your scenario, the runner was healthy before the OBS, and the OBS caused the injury to runner. If, in my judgment, the BR would have reached 3B if OBS had not occurred, then the award is 3B, regardless of the fact that the BR stopped at 2B.

The proper thing to do would be to call time, announce the award and ask the runner if he can make it to 3B. If the runner is injured enough that he can't get to 3B, then the coach may put a substitute runner in for him, and that substitute may continue running to 3B as per ASA 4-6-D. Do not simply put that substitute on 3B, but put him on 2B instead to have him run to the awarded 3B.

If we're dealing with kids, on the other hand, don't ask the kid if s/he can run to 3B. Ask the coach to check on him/her, and let the coach make the decision.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

The OBS rule states that the runner is awarded the base they would have reached (again, in the judgment of the umpire) had the OBS not occurred. In your scenario, the runner was healthy before the OBS, and the OBS caused the injury to runner. If, in my judgment, the BR would have reached 3B if OBS had not occurred, then the award is 3B, regardless of the fact that the BR stopped at 2B.

The proper thing to do would be to call time, announce the award and ask the runner if he can make it to 3B. If the runner is injured enough that he can't get to 3B, then the coach may put a substitute runner in for him, and that substitute may continue running to 3B as per ASA 4-6-D. Do not simply put that substitute on 3B, but put him on 2B instead to have him run to the awarded 3B.

If we're dealing with kids, on the other hand, don't ask the kid if s/he can run to 3B. Ask the coach to check on him/her, and let the coach make the decision.

forgot to add in my last post that the LF only had a play at 2nd bc of the OBS. If there was no OBS, the LF would have throw the ball to the SS who would have been standing by 3B (bc it would have been a standup double), thus the LF would have never made the errant throw. Does any of this "hypothetical would haves" matter in the "awarding" of bases?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

forgot to add in my last post that the LF only had a play at 2nd bc of the OBS. If there was no OBS, the LF would have throw the ball to the SS who would have been standing by 3B (bc it would have been a standup double), thus the LF would have never made the errant throw. Does any of this "hypothetical would haves" matter in the "awarding" of bases?

By rule, the umpire decides on the award at the time of the OBS. We can play a million "what if" scenarios, but in the end, it is up to the umpire to decide where s/he believes the runner or batter-runner would have ended up had the OBS never occurred.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

We can play a million "what if" scenarios, but in the end, it is up to the umpire to decide where s/he believes the runner or batter-runner would have ended up had the OBS never occurred.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

By rule, the umpire decides on the award at the time of the OBS. We can play a million "what if" scenarios, but in the end, it is up to the umpire to decide where s/he believes the runner or batter-runner would have ended up had the OBS never occurred.

Just to be clear, Im not asking to play gotcha, Im asking bc I dont know the correct answer and want to know what others ppls opinion are.

So by that logic, if the OBS led to the defense making a throw that would not have been made if there wasnt OBS, any "extraneous" activity would factor into deciding what base to "award". Is that correct?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Tell me about it.