Another obstruction call

[Ran.D]

Think I got this call right, but not sure. Mechanics felt wrong.

R1 on 1B. R2 hits a drive to center. From position B, I go out expecting a trouble catch. CF does mishandle the ball. Turning to the infield, I see second baseman trip R1 rounding second. Raise the left arm for obstruction while coming in.

R2 heads for 2B, but obstructed runner gets up and returns to 2B. I’m now in the infield signaling obstruction, but R1 (who was almost safely to 2B) returns to 1B and barely beats the throw.

Award R1 third (on judgment) and leave R2 at first.

[Andy]

If you're looking for comments..here's mine:

Regarding the OBS call...sounds good to me. Based on your statement of BR almost being at second base and the ball still being in the outfield (my assumption), it seems as if R1 should be awarded third and BR awarded second. As with most OBS scenarios, HTBT is the operative phrase.

A side note that may or may not apply to you and your umpires association and/or area - I have been taught that when the BU goes out on a fly ball (two-umpire), they stay out and the PU has all the runners. We will rarely go out on a fly ball with runners on base. My assumption is that you were working a two umpire system in this game. If you were working three umpire, one or both of your partners seriously went to sleep.

[Ran.D]

BR was not obstructed, but chose to return to 1B. Why should she be awarded 2B?

I think you're right about staying out and giving PU the OBS call (or not going out in the first place). It felt wrong. The trip was obvious, however, and he did not give the signal. His view may have been blocked by the pitcher.

PU was a good partner. We did confer, he agreed BR should stay on 1B.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by Ran.D

BR was not obstructed, but chose to return to 1B. Why should she be awarded 2B?

PU was a good partner. We did confer, he agreed BR should stay on 1B.

Had obstruction NOT occured, would R1 have reached 3B? You judged YES, so that is where you put her.

Now - had obstruction not occured, would BR have reached (and stayed at) 2B? If YES, then place her there. From your posting, it sounds to me like BR had 2B, but returned ONLY because obstructed runner was going back there.

WMB

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Ran.D

BR was not obstructed, but chose to return to 1B. Why should she be awarded 2B?

I think you're right about staying out and giving PU the OBS call (or not going out in the first place). It felt wrong. The trip was obvious, however, and he did not give the signal. His view may have been blocked by the pitcher.

PU was a good partner. We did confer, he agreed BR should stay on 1B.

On any obstruction call, you award all runners affected by the obstruction the base they would have reached had there bee no obstruction.

Would the BR have reached 2nd, if R1 had not been obstructed and had made it safely to 3rd? Probably. Why did the BR return to 1B? Because R1 was on 2B. Had R1 not been on 2B, then the BR would not have returned to 1B. It sounds like both were effected by the obstruction.

Bottom line, its your judgment and it is a HTBT type of play. IMHO, from what you told me sounds like BR should have gotten 2B.

[CecilOne]

Reading the OP, I couldn't tell if R1 returned to 2nd as an effect of the OBS or whether R1 had reached/passed 2nd at the point of the trip/OBS.

NOTE: If R2 beat the throw to 1st, my guess would be that R1 would have beaten the throw to 3rd or only would have been beaten by the throw because of the OBS. But, was the throw to 1st from center?

If R1 stayed at 2nd because of the OBS and you judged R1 would have reached 3rd otherwise, R1 should get 3rd. In that case, it seems that R2 only returned to 1st because R2 was on 2nd and would have reached 2nd otherwise; then R2 should get 2nd.

If R1 stayed at 2nd and you judged R1 would not have reached 3rd even w/o OBS, then R1 should not get 3rd.

I don't see a pattern that would have resulted in R1 getting 3rd and R2 staying at 1st. IOW, if R1 would have reached 3rd; then it looks like R2 would have reached 2nd.

ditto to Andy's comments about mechanics

[CecilOne]

No syrprise that I'm teh slowest typist of theh three of is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ran.D

Think I got this call right, but not sure. Mechanics felt wrong.

R1 on 1B. R2 hits a drive to center. From position B, I go out expecting a trouble catch. CF does mishandle the ball. Turning to the infield, I see second baseman trip R1 rounding second. Raise the left arm for obstruction while coming in.

R2 heads for 2B, but obstructed runner gets up and returns to 2B. I’m now in the infield signaling obstruction, but R1 (who was almost safely to 2B) returns to 1B and barely beats the throw.

Award R1 third (on judgment) and leave R2 at first.

Speaking ASA

No problem with you calling what you saw. Yes, once an umpire goes out, s/he does not come back. That is so there is no question in the remaining umpire's mind(s) concerning who has the plays so they can confidently adjust their coverage. To paraphrase Billy P., "just because you went out doesn't mean your crew cannot use the advantage of another pair of eyes watching a play."

As noted by others, all runners affected by the OBS are awarded the base each would have reached had the OBS not occured.

[Ran.D]

Thanks guys........appears I was not only out of position, but blew the call on the BR. Fortunately, the game was not close.

[umpharp]

you wern't out of position as long as you and your partner talked about when you might go out before hand.
I do think that R2 should have been given second with R1 given third.
Any complaining from either team on the play?

[Ran.D]

Neither team complained, the trip was obvious.

Interestingly, I had a game with the same partner last night and brought up that we may have missed the call.

Not only did he disagree with awarding R2 second, we ran it by another crew and they didn't think she should get second either.

Their argument "only the obstructed runner is awarded a base, coach should have brought R1 to third."

So, "affected by the obstruction" seems to be a judgement call??

[celebur]

Excuse me if I'm going on a tangent, but this is a learning moment for me.

What would happen if BR was tagged out before getting back to 1B? Do you have an out? Or do you protect him because he was affected by the obstruction?

Thanks in advance. . .

[bigsig]

Technically, the other crews are correct that obstruction only effects the obstructed runner, however, in my opinion we should consider the intent of this rule. It is intended to insure that the defense doesn't get an unfair advantage by hindering base runners. With that in mind, did the defense get an advantage when the BR was kept on 1B? It sounds like they did.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by Ran.D

Their argument "only the obstructed runner is awarded a base, coach should have brought R1 to third."

So, "affected by the obstruction" seems to be a judgement call??

Not at all - it is a rule. And you need to ask your partner and the other crew to read ASA 8-5.B.4 which contains the following sentence:

"the obstructed runner and each other runner affected by the obstruction, will always be awarded the base or bases which would have been reached, in the umpire's judgment, had there been no obstruction."

WMB

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by celebur

Excuse me if I'm going on a tangent, but this is a learning moment for me.

What would happen if BR was tagged out before getting back to 1B? Do you have an out? Or do you protect him because he was affected by the obstruction?

Do you see a difference between a runner being put in jepordy by an act of obstruction, and the following runner being put in jepordy by the action of the obstructed runner?

I do not. I feel that the following runner is, in essence, also obstructed, and thus is protected from being put out. I would use 8-5.B.4 quoted above to support that position.

WMB