Obstruction Call

[oppool]

Ok here is a play that I thought of tonight that is bugging me which I believe is not out of the real from happening.

SIT: R1 on 2nd no outs, B2 hits a grounder up the middle to F8 as B2 rounds 1st in a trot watching the ball he bumps into F3 also watching the ball. You are the BU and make your delayed dead ball signal, B2 knowing he has no chance for 2nd retreats back to 1st as F8 is throwing the ball into F4 at 2nd base. F4 turns quickly and sees R1 has made a big turn 3rd and throws to F5 on third, R1 slides under the attempted tag and is safe. Then F5 looks and sees that B2 has taken off for 2nd throws back to F4 who applies the tag to B2 as he is sliding into 2nd base for an apparent out.


My thoughts since you ruled the obstruction than you still have to protect B2 between 1st and 2nd even though the obstruction had nothing to due with B2 being put out on the play. My award even though there was a close play at 2nd would be to put B2 back on 1st base then listen and try to explain to the defensive coach the ruling


Anybody see it any different?? In this situation it doesnt seem fair to continue protecting B2 but by rule I believe we have to.


Don

[whiskers_ump]

Don,
From the way you presented the play, I would say that the
protection you placed on B2 would have expired since the
defense had time to make one complete play [at 3rd], then
B2 being safetly back to 1B now decides to attempt to go
into 2B. I would have the out and I would probably then be
over listening to and explaining to the offensive coach why
I felt the out should stand....The big guns will be here
shortly, but that is the way I visualized the play as it
unfolded.

Glen

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

Don,

I have to agree with Glen on this one. I believe the protection awarded to B2 on the obstruction does not apply
to B2 taking off for 2nd after the play at 3rd. I've got an out on B2 with R1 on 3rd.

Elaine

[kchamp]

Somewhere I read the the award is to put the runner where she would be if there were no obstruction. But I'm not so sure as a award is warranted here. If there were no obstruction, the reason shes out is her own running gaff.

Kent

[Dakota]

This is an interesting scenario.

Here is the summary of the facts: R2 is obstructed rounding 1B. During the ensuing play, R2 returns to 1B and then, seeing the play being made on another runner, decides to try for 2B and is tagged out. Note: None of the exceptions for calling a runner out between the two bases where obstruction occurred are present.

Speaking ASA, the rule (8-6-B) and POE 31 say the following: (I'll be skipping around, so you may want to get our your rule book to follow along):

An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed unless … (exceptions don't apply here)…An obstructed runner could be called out between the two bases he was obstructed if …(conditions not present here )…When the runner is obstructed during a rundown, a delayed dead ball is called. If the runner is tagged out after being obstructed, a dead ball is ruled, and he is awarded the base he would have made had there been no obstruction. If the ball is overthrown after the obstruction, the runner may advance. He may not be called out between the two bases where he was obstructed….If the obstructed runner is put out after passing the base which would have been reached had there not been obstruction, the obstructed runner will be called out. The ball remains live….If the obstructed runner is put out after passing the base he would have reached had there not been obstruction, he is running at his own risk and, if tagged, would be called out. The ball remains live and other plays may be made.

The rule book is unequivocal - the runner may not be called out between the two bases where he was obstructed, unless there is another violation leading to an appeal, etc. Regardless of the fact that R2 should have stayed on 1B, when he is tagged out at second, a dead ball should be declared, and he should be returned to 1B. Even though the rule book says that once the runner has passed the base he would have reached (1B in this case), he is running at his own risk, this is not listed as one of the exceptions to protecting the runner between the bases where the obstruction occurred.

My ruling: dead ball, R2 not out, return R2 to 1B.


[Edited by Dakota on Feb 6th, 2002 at 11:03 AM]

[SamNVa]

Don,

My take on the situation is similar to all the others. Since the BR really had no chance to advance to 2nd and really wasn't even attempting to advance anyway, the only base I'm protecting her to is back to 1st. Even though she originally could not be put out between 1st and 2nd and would have been put back on 1st if she had attempted to advance immediately, post obstruction evidence allows me to revise my protection. Since the runner advanced beyond her protected base on subsequent play she did so at her own peril, so I have her out at 2nd.

JMO,
SamC

[Dakota]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Don,

My take on the situation is similar to all the others.

What am I? Chopped liver?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

Don and Dak are correct. There are no questions, what ifs , buts or debate about it. As Dakota pointed out, ASA is very specific on this point.

As the umpire, you do not have the authority to ignore the rule and lose the protest. It is not a judgment call. If the umpire throws out that left arm, s/he cannot call the runner out between 1B & 2B unless the runner committed and act of interference. That would be a misinterpretation of the rules.

Y'all may not like it, but you are getting paid to work the game within the parameter of the rules setforth prior to the contest.

[SamNVa]

Sorry Dakota,

I guess I missed your post. Actually my excuse is that I was already reading the thread and posted my response before I saw yours.

I understand what you're are saying about calling the runner out between 1st and 2nd, but once she returns to 1st and then takes off again hasn't she now "passed the base she would have reached if there had been no obstruction"?.

I would agree with you if the runner continued on to second after the obstruction, but once she returns to her "protected to" base, I think that the effects of the obstruction have been nullified and once she leaves 1st again, she is now running at her own peril per rule 8.6.B(2).

That's my interpretation anyway. Subject to change via persuasive argument.

SamC

[Dakota]

Hey, Sam,

Yeah, I figured our posts had "crossed in the ether" -- I just wanted to poke a little fun...

Anyhow, speaking of persuasive argument, in the meantime I have been checking out the case book.

How about Case Play 8.6-12.

For those without an ASA Case Book - shame on you if you call ASA, but anyhow I'll quote the case play...

PLAY 8.6-12
R1 on 2B. B2 gets a base hit. R1 after rounding 3B is obstructed by F1. At the time of the obstruction, in the umpire's judgment, R1 could not have made home. The throw was already back in the infield. R1 is returned to 3B. F2 cuts the throw and retires B2 at 2B. R1 breaks for home and is tagged at the plate on the return throw.

RULING: At the time of the obstruction, R1 could not have made home. The ball remains live. The out at 2B stands. With the tag of R1 at home, the ball becomes dead. Return R1 to 3B. (8-6B)

R1 returned to 3B after the obstruction and only tried to run home after F2 throws to 2B. The ASA ruling is that even though 3B was the base R1 was protected to, and even though R1 returned to 3B and only tried for home after another play was made by the defense, R1 still cannot be put out between 3B and home.

[SamNVa]

Dak,

Welp, that's pretty persuasive I'ma figurin'.

SamC

[Roger Greene]

I think I'm staying out of obstruction threads for a while.

Yall have fun.

Roger Greene

[whiskers_ump]

WOW--WOW, I agree with Roger these Obstruction/Inference things are mine.
[[Note sp]]boogling......

Nice research Dakota.

glen