play brought up at FP camp

[ronald]

Someone brought up the following situation at the advanced camp.

R1 at 3b with less than 2 outs and 2 balls, 1 strikes. The next pitch is a ball and the batter swings and misses and takes off to 1st base as if a dropped third strike. The context provided by the ump was that this is a designed play by the team at bat to get the runner home on a possible throw down to 1b. Regardless of that info, 1) what are you going to do? and 2) let me know when you want to know what KR said we can do.

Ron

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

Someone brought up the following situation at the advanced camp.

R1 at 3b with less than 2 outs and 2 balls, 1 strikes. The next pitch is a ball and the batter swings and misses and takes off to 1st base as if a dropped third strike. The context provided by the ump was that this is a designed play by the team at bat to get the runner home on a possible throw down to 1b. Regardless of that info, 1) what are you going to do? and 2) let me know when you want to know what KR said we can do.

Ron

Time! Batter, the count is 3-1,
Direct the batter to return to the batter's box,
1..2..3..5..7..9....STRIKE! "3-2", PLAY!

[Tru_in_Blu]

I think we're supposed to announce the count: when asked, after a suspension in play, or when the next pitch may result in a status change. A count of 2-1 would not result in a status change regardless of whether the pitch was a ball or a strike.

I think we've also been told that it is up to both the offense and defense to know the count and the number of outs.

The pitch might have been a called ball had the batter not swung at it, but now it's a strike, although only strike 2. The OP didn't say if the ball hit the ground, but mostly this is a moot point since we're now only at strike 2.

In most cases, if the batter takes off for first base, I've got nothing, even if the catcher throws the ball into RF. If that happens, the runner from 3B scores, and the batter is standing on 1B, 2B, or 3B, I'm bringing the batter back to finish his/her AB.

Since this is a "play of interest", I'm going to guess that if, in the umpire's judgment, s/he thought this was being done intentionally, the batter could be called out for interference by drawing a throw to 1B. And if the runner from 3B advanced, would need to return there.

So now I'll await the official ruling and check out the various rules that will be cited.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Time! Batter, the count is 3-1,
Direct the batter to return to the batter's box,
1..2..3..5..7..9....STRIKE! "3-2", PLAY!

Dang, Mike, give the other guys a chance to play.

If you don't do what Mike says, then you will have to...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

Dang, Mike, give the other guys a chance to play.

If you don't do what Mike says, then you will have to...

Actually, I have no problem with Ted's take except the calling a player out thing.

And let me pull a word out that we haven't heard here in a while. I have no problem with a trick play. Contrary to many umpires' (and duped coaches' beliefs, there is no rule against "trickery".

If a coach has a trick play and it does not involve a violation of a rule, I say go for it as long as s/he knows that I will not protect his/her team if it backfires.

Example, I once played for a coach who would occasionally have us run off the field with just two outs with the hope the opposition would just believe the inning was over and move on. When I began umpiring, I didn't stop the play when I saw it for two reasons: Shame on the other team for not taking care of business and that is one less I with which I have to deal.

Of course, such a play eventually catches up to you. One time, the team had a runner on 2B and the opposing coach knew there were only two outs. The sly old fox started to talk to his runner, but stayed in the box so the runner would continue walking toward 3B. Once he got within range that only the coach could hear, he told him to touch 3B and run home. The player did and the other coach went crazy, because I wouldn't tell the runner to go back because there were only 2 outs! I may have only been 16, but I just smiled at the coach and shook my head saying, I don't think so, coach.

[wadeintothem]

hmm last weekend a team ran off the field with 2 outs. Everyone cleared and we went on. I just figured I missed an out or free out for me. No one said a word and they were happy so I was happy. I bet it was the "Mike Play".
Thats funny.

I'll be ready next time I ignore that!

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

In most cases, if the batter takes off for first base, I've got nothing, even if the catcher throws the ball into RF. If that happens, the runner from 3B scores, and the batter is standing on 1B, 2B, or 3B, I'm bringing the batter back to finish his/her AB.

Yep. If you do not kill it and the play develops, run scores.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by ronald

Yep. If you do not kill it and the play develops, run scores.

IMO, you do not kill it. Why would you kill it?

[ronald]

Wade,

I can not give you an answer to that question. I do not recall KR giving an answer to that point. I do recall, though, that the questioner strongly emphasized the aspect of the running was deliberate and the umpire knew it was going to happen. He did not go down that road. He went with: wo, time, where you going? get back here.

[wadeintothem]

well he's the man and presuming he understood the scenario as presented here, I would still question that. I'm not sure that opionion has a basis in the rules. IMO, its either a form of interference or its nothing. If we call time and put the other runners back in a "do over" fashion, there is nothing in black and white supporting that. I guess we could always tell a coach "Well ronald said KR said".

This is the same as running to 3B on D3K when its occupied with less than two outs. There is no difference.
This is a live ball.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

If we call time and put the other runners back in a "do over" fashion, there is nothing in black and white supporting that.

Darn that batter... She kicked dirt on the plate, and now I have to call "time" to brush it off.

By the way, the count is now 2 balls, 2 strikes. And batter, you'd better get back in the box before I call strike 3. 1 Mississippi...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

Wade,

I can not give you an answer to that question. I do not recall KR giving an answer to that point. I do recall, though, that the questioner strongly emphasized the aspect of the running was deliberate and the umpire knew it was going to happen. He did not go down that road. He went with: wo, time, where you going? get back here.

The ball can be declared dead by the PU based upon 10.4.A & B. Even C if the umpire believes it is appropriate.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The ball can be declared dead by the PU based upon 10.4.A & B. Even C if the umpire believes it is appropriate.

That's real real good Mike! You are earning your dues today

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by ronald

That's real real good Mike! You are earning your dues today

I could insist a player walk ontheir hands to fetch me a snow cone or I will call them out using that rule.

I stand by what i said, there is no rule killing this ball UNLESS you argue for a form of INT (I wouldnt agree with it but its better than GOD RULE), in which case, we have an out.

[Dakota]

That wasn't the God rule... that was the rule about suspending play.