Camp Case Play, What Would You Call?

[ReadyToRef]

Big Dog D1 Women's Official and Great Interpretator of the rules brought up this case play at camp:

A1 is caught in a trap in the front court right next to the backcourt line. He passes to A2 who is also in the frontcourt next to the backcourt line on the opposite side of A1. In order to get the ball to A2, A1 throws a bounce pass that hits in the backcourt and because of its spin bounces to A2 who grabs it. A2 grabs it without going into the backcourt.

What do you call, NCAA or NFHS, and what rule or definition are you using to back it up?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
Big Dog D1 Women's Official and Great Interpretator of the rules brought up this case play at camp:

A1 is caught in a trap in the front court right next to the backcourt line. He passes to A2 who is also in the frontcourt next to the backcourt line on the opposite side of A1. In order to get the ball to A2, A1 throws a bounce pass that hits in the backcourt and because of its spin bounces to A2 who grabs it. A2 grabs it without going into the backcourt.

What do you call, NCAA or NFHS, and what rule or definition are you using to back it up?

We've been over this one several times before. However, it's a good one to demonstrate the backcourt violation rule. I'll hold off on providing my answer while giving others that haven't seen it before a chance to think about it.

Expanding it to all possible combinations (some should be obvious to all, some may not be):

Player A1 Location	Player A2 Location	Ball Bounce Location	Backcourt violation???
Frontcourt	Frontcourt	Frontcourt	?
		Backcourt	?
	Backcourt	Frontcourt	?
		Backcourt	?
Backcourt	Frontcourt	Frontcourt	?
		Backcourt	?
	Backcourt	Frontcourt	?
		Backcourt	?

[Edited by Camron Rust on Jul 27th, 2004 at 09:14 PM]

[ref18]

Ball is in the backcourt until it touches something in the frontcourt.

My instinct would be to call a back court violation.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

We've been over this one several times before. However, it's a good one to demonstrate the backcourt violation rule. I'll hold off on providing my answer while giving others that haven't seen it before a chance to think about it.

Expanding it to all possible combinations (some should be obvious to all, some may not be):





[Edited by Camron Rust on Jul 27th, 2004 at 01:46 PM]

You're leaving an awful lot to assumption.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
Big Dog D1 Women's Official and Great Interpretator of the rules brought up this case play at camp:

A1 is caught in a trap in the front court right next to the backcourt line. He passes to A2 who is also in the frontcourt next to the backcourt line on the opposite side of A1. In order to get the ball to A2, A1 throws a bounce pass that hits in the backcourt and because of its spin bounces to A2 who grabs it. A2 grabs it without going into the backcourt.

What do you call, NCAA or NFHS, and what rule or definition are you using to back it up?

Violation in NFHS. No exact case play that I know of. The ball was in control of Team A, and a player of Team A was the last to touch the ball in FC and a player of Team A was the first to touch it after it returned to the back court.

Z

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

You're leaving an awful lot to assumption.

What? It was a bounce pass (as the original case) from one player to another. That's about all that is needed as far as I can think of.

[Stan]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef


A1 is caught in a trap in the front court right next to the backcourt line. He passes to A2 who is also in the frontcourt next to the backcourt line on the opposite side of A1. In order to get the ball to A2, A1 throws a bounce pass that hits in the backcourt and because of its spin bounces to A2 who grabs it. A2 grabs it without going into the backcourt.

Backcourt violation: Fed rule 9-9-1

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by zebraman

Violation in NFHS. No exact case play that I know of. The ball was in control of Team A, and a player of Team A was the last to touch the ball in FC and a player of Team A was the first to touch it after it returned to the back court.

Z

Careful here, the highlighted part above is not accurate. It's correct but not complete.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

What? It was a bounce pass (as the original case) from one player to another. That's about all that is needed as far as I can think of.

Sorry, I figured your chart was for the general case, not the play under discussion. I should have realized.

Anyway, nice table.

[Nu1]

NFHS...

I believe it is a backcourt. Rule 9-9-1 says "A player shall not...be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt."

In this play, a team A player was the last to touch after team control was established in the front court...and the first to touch after the ball went to the backcourt. There is nothing in the rule that says the other team A player has to be in the backcourt to violate.

[ReadyToRef]

The D1 official told us this situation was brought up at a NCAA meeting. Supposedly the officials at the meeting were split on whether or not to call this a backcourt violation.

When I asked him what he would call, he said he would not call it a backcourt violation. He stated that he could not find anything in the NCAA literature to justify a backcourt violation call.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
The D1 official told us this situation was brought up at a NCAA meeting. Supposedly the officials at the meeting were split on whether or not to call this a backcourt violation.

When I asked him what he would call, he said he would not call it a backcourt violation. He stated that he could not find anything in the NCAA literature to justify a backcourt violation call.

Really???

That must be because he is using Billy Packer's rules book.

NCAA A.R. 19 under 9-11-1 explicitly covers this play and clearly states that it is a backcourt violation.

PS I like the chart, Camron.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
The D1 official told us this situation was brought up at a NCAA meeting. Supposedly the officials at the meeting were split on whether or not to call this a backcourt violation.

When I asked him what he would call, he said he would not call it a backcourt violation. He stated that he could not find anything in the NCAA literature to justify a backcourt violation call.

The higher level you work, the less time you have to read the rules.

Z

[cloverdale]

my first instinct was to call it a violation but would waited to see who touched it first...in this case A2. Now a DIFFERENT situation...we can agree that if A1 is in the FC and passes the ball to A2 who takes the pass in the air from the BC and lands in the FC that this would be a BC violation...now for the twist. What would the call be, on the previous play, if the ball bounced back in the FC before A2 touched it? Would FC status be reestablished?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by cloverdale
my first instinct was to call it a violation but would waited to see who touched it first...in this case A2. Now a DIFFERENT situation...we can agree that if A1 is in the FC and passes the ball to A2 who takes the pass in the air from the BC and lands in the FC that this would be a BC violation...now for the twist. What would the call be, on the previous play, if the ball bounced back in the FC before A2 touched it? Would FC status be reestablished?

WARNING: The following post is specific to this senario. Don't read too much into it.

Frontcourt status for the ball would be reestablished, but it is still a backcourt violation. It does not matter where the ball goes after entering the backcourt. Nor does it matter where the player is standing when he touches it. All that matters is WHO touches the ball first after it has been in the backcourt.