Mechanics question

[Andy]

I have been working the Independence Day tournament in Boulder, CO this past week...met some umpires that know some of you all...Working with an umpire from the Dallas area and this question came up. I would like opinions based on both ASA and NCAA mechanics.

2 umpire system with runners at first and second base. On a base hit to the outfield, which umpire has the play on the lead runner at third base? Is your answer an absolute or is it "situational" based on where the ball is hit, deep, shallow, etc...?

[wadeintothem]

I think all field mechanics have a situational aspect; however, that call is PU's. BU has 1 and 2 and his positioning should be such to facilitate that, not an initial call at 3B

[umpirebob71]

Generally, we go with the PU taking the lead runner, with the BU taking the trailing runner(s) with multiple runners on.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by umpirebob71

Generally, we go with the PU taking the lead runner, with the BU taking the trailing runner(s) with multiple runners on.

So, the only way I can see this happening is with a ball hit very sharply to left. On such a ball, where are you moving to as PU to see this call? You're obviously not going to get very close but what would you do to try and buy some angle?
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[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by youngump

So, the only way I can see this happening is with a ball hit very sharply to left. On such a ball, where are you moving to as PU to see this call? You're obviously not going to get very close but what would you do to try and buy some angle?

Sorry, but I dont agree that you wont be in good position. You should be in good to excellent position to make this call with a natural 90. The harder job on this call IMO is BU's.

It seems to me this call has two flavors -

1 where you are moving on the hit because that play is obviously happening right now and you should be in real decent on the position because you read the play is going there (or potentially there). This would be perhaps something like a liner one hopped by left field.

1 where you are still moving, but perhaps held a little by fair/foul catch/no catch, it which case the runner is held as well (or there wouldnt be a play there to worry about). (mid to deep fly)

So once you determine fairfoulcatchnocatch, you can be moving and also in good position, you should be the runner in flavor 2 because you can still come up the line or into the infield plenty.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

hustle your *** off and get as good an angle as you can get.... however I have seen people deviate from that and on the sharp hit ball with a force play comming into effect letting the base umpire take it.... btw this is one of those times where I say we need three man all the time we can get it and when we cant sometimes were just Fd

[KJUmp]

PU 's call at 3rd. Wade hit the nail on the head with his reply. This is not a hard play to cover for a 2 man crew. This is basic bread and butter coverage that happens often in a game and should be covered seamlessly by 2 good umps who know what they're doing. So even the times that it play may get a little dicey (shoestring catch, trap, LF foul line, etc.) as Wade stated, get your angles, work the coverage. Pause, read, react. Don't over complicate
things.
A 3 man crew is not always the answer to good coverage of a play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I have been working the Independence Day tournament in Boulder, CO this past week...met some umpires that know some of you all...Working with an umpire from the Dallas area and this question came up. I would like opinions based on both ASA and NCAA mechanics.

2 umpire system with runners at first and second base. On a base hit to the outfield, which umpire has the play on the lead runner at third base? Is your answer an absolute or is it "situational" based on where the ball is hit, deep, shallow, etc...?

PU, and shy of a medical emergency, I cannot see any reason it shouldn't be the PU's call.

Don't care where or how hard or soft it is hit, whether a tag play or force out, an umpire shouldn't have that much of a problem as long as they hustle, but that should be something the umpire always does.

[Skahtboi]

As has been stated it is the PU's call all the way. It is also pretty darn routine and a quite easy play to cover if you are PU.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

As has been stated it is the PU's call all the way. It is also pretty darn routine and a quite easy play to cover if you are PU.

K, so I don't have as much experience as most of you, but still, I've never seen a force play at third on a ball hit to the outfield. So we're probably visualizing something different. I've got a ball hit very sharply to F7 who's playing shallow. F5 is stretching toward left field like a first baseman toward the throw and the runner didn't have to hold up at all.

If it's the play I'm visualizing, then here's the problem. I'm pretty young and fast but there's no way that a runner coming hard from second --who left with the pitch -- can get to third at the same time as a ball to the left fielder gets to third and me -- who started moving from set after the ball was hit -- have time to get from behind home plate to any angle that's even close to perpendicular to that throw.

I can understand getting a good look at a play if something else happens, like the catch/no catch with the runner holding up, but the sharp line drive?
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[azbigdawg]

(note to self....Check Andy's mechanics this weekend.....)

[wadeintothem]

Youngump, what you have to do is: work on it.

Work on your 3B positioning. Every game be working on something and add that to the list of things you need to be aware of so you can work on it. Even if there isnt a play there, move because its your call if there is. That will make it habit.

Recognize now that it is your call, so now you need to get it down.

[DaveASA/FED]

Even 3 person potentially won't help on this play. ball hit in air to left field toward line R1 on 2nd. U3 goes out with hit, LF drops ball and R1 takes off for 3rd U1 has BR, PU has R1 going into 3rd, U3 is out till play is over. So even 3 person has the PU taking that play at 3rd base coming from the outfield on lead runner.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Youngump, what you have to do is: work on it.

Work on your 3B positioning. Every game be working on something and add that to the list of things you need to be aware of so you can work on it. Even if there isnt a play there, move because its your call if there is. That will make it habit.

Recognize now that it is your call, so now you need to get it down.

I do move down toward third base here, and I guess conceptually I've understood it's my call. I'm still just not sure where you'd go on this play if you want to actually see anything on it. I can't work on getting somewhere unless someone will own up and tell me where that is.
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[wadeintothem]

You need to be just in foul territory at a 90 degree 10-12 feet from the base for that play