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Andy Mon Jul 06, 2009 03:55pm

Mechanics question
 
I have been working the Independence Day tournament in Boulder, CO this past week...met some umpires that know some of you all...Working with an umpire from the Dallas area and this question came up. I would like opinions based on both ASA and NCAA mechanics.

2 umpire system with runners at first and second base. On a base hit to the outfield, which umpire has the play on the lead runner at third base? Is your answer an absolute or is it "situational" based on where the ball is hit, deep, shallow, etc...?

wadeintothem Mon Jul 06, 2009 04:17pm

I think all field mechanics have a situational aspect; however, that call is PU's. BU has 1 and 2 and his positioning should be such to facilitate that, not an initial call at 3B

umpirebob71 Mon Jul 06, 2009 04:54pm

Generally, we go with the PU taking the lead runner, with the BU taking the trailing runner(s) with multiple runners on.

youngump Mon Jul 06, 2009 05:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpirebob71 (Post 612821)
Generally, we go with the PU taking the lead runner, with the BU taking the trailing runner(s) with multiple runners on.

So, the only way I can see this happening is with a ball hit very sharply to left. On such a ball, where are you moving to as PU to see this call? You're obviously not going to get very close but what would you do to try and buy some angle?
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wadeintothem Mon Jul 06, 2009 05:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 612826)
So, the only way I can see this happening is with a ball hit very sharply to left. On such a ball, where are you moving to as PU to see this call? You're obviously not going to get very close but what would you do to try and buy some angle?

Sorry, but I dont agree that you wont be in good position. You should be in good to excellent position to make this call with a natural 90. The harder job on this call IMO is BU's.

It seems to me this call has two flavors -

1 where you are moving on the hit because that play is obviously happening right now and you should be in real decent on the position because you read the play is going there (or potentially there). This would be perhaps something like a liner one hopped by left field.

1 where you are still moving, but perhaps held a little by fair/foul catch/no catch, it which case the runner is held as well (or there wouldnt be a play there to worry about). (mid to deep fly)

So once you determine fairfoulcatchnocatch, you can be moving and also in good position, you should be the runner in flavor 2 because you can still come up the line or into the infield plenty.

kcg NC2Ablu Mon Jul 06, 2009 05:37pm

hustle your *** off and get as good an angle as you can get.... however I have seen people deviate from that and on the sharp hit ball with a force play comming into effect letting the base umpire take it.... btw this is one of those times where I say we need three man all the time we can get it and when we cant sometimes were just Fd

KJUmp Mon Jul 06, 2009 07:48pm

PU 's call at 3rd. Wade hit the nail on the head with his reply. This is not a hard play to cover for a 2 man crew. This is basic bread and butter coverage that happens often in a game and should be covered seamlessly by 2 good umps who know what they're doing. So even the times that it play may get a little dicey (shoestring catch, trap, LF foul line, etc.) as Wade stated, get your angles, work the coverage. Pause, read, react. Don't over complicate
things.
A 3 man crew is not always the answer to good coverage of a play.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Jul 06, 2009 08:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 612800)
I have been working the Independence Day tournament in Boulder, CO this past week...met some umpires that know some of you all...Working with an umpire from the Dallas area and this question came up. I would like opinions based on both ASA and NCAA mechanics.

2 umpire system with runners at first and second base. On a base hit to the outfield, which umpire has the play on the lead runner at third base? Is your answer an absolute or is it "situational" based on where the ball is hit, deep, shallow, etc...?

PU, and shy of a medical emergency, I cannot see any reason it shouldn't be the PU's call.

Don't care where or how hard or soft it is hit, whether a tag play or force out, an umpire shouldn't have that much of a problem as long as they hustle, but that should be something the umpire always does.:D

Skahtboi Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:11pm

As has been stated it is the PU's call all the way. It is also pretty darn routine and a quite easy play to cover if you are PU.

youngump Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 612878)
As has been stated it is the PU's call all the way. It is also pretty darn routine and a quite easy play to cover if you are PU.

K, so I don't have as much experience as most of you, but still, I've never seen a force play at third on a ball hit to the outfield. So we're probably visualizing something different. I've got a ball hit very sharply to F7 who's playing shallow. F5 is stretching toward left field like a first baseman toward the throw and the runner didn't have to hold up at all.

If it's the play I'm visualizing, then here's the problem. I'm pretty young and fast but there's no way that a runner coming hard from second --who left with the pitch -- can get to third at the same time as a ball to the left fielder gets to third and me -- who started moving from set after the ball was hit -- have time to get from behind home plate to any angle that's even close to perpendicular to that throw.

I can understand getting a good look at a play if something else happens, like the catch/no catch with the runner holding up, but the sharp line drive?
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spanish girl Cam

azbigdawg Tue Jul 07, 2009 04:47am

(note to self....Check Andy's mechanics this weekend.....)

wadeintothem Tue Jul 07, 2009 07:28am

Youngump, what you have to do is: work on it.

Work on your 3B positioning. Every game be working on something and add that to the list of things you need to be aware of so you can work on it. Even if there isnt a play there, move because its your call if there is. That will make it habit.

Recognize now that it is your call, so now you need to get it down.

DaveASA/FED Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:28am

Even 3 person potentially won't help on this play. ball hit in air to left field toward line R1 on 2nd. U3 goes out with hit, LF drops ball and R1 takes off for 3rd U1 has BR, PU has R1 going into 3rd, U3 is out till play is over. So even 3 person has the PU taking that play at 3rd base coming from the outfield on lead runner.

youngump Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem (Post 612921)
Youngump, what you have to do is: work on it.

Work on your 3B positioning. Every game be working on something and add that to the list of things you need to be aware of so you can work on it. Even if there isnt a play there, move because its your call if there is. That will make it habit.

Recognize now that it is your call, so now you need to get it down.

I do move down toward third base here, and I guess conceptually I've understood it's my call. I'm still just not sure where you'd go on this play if you want to actually see anything on it. I can't work on getting somewhere unless someone will own up and tell me where that is.
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wadeintothem Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:22pm

You need to be just in foul territory at a 90 degree 10-12 feet from the base for that play


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