2 man mechanics question

[Daryl H. Long]

Top of 5th inning. Game tied at 2 runs each. Visitors have R1 on 3rd and R2 on 2nd. B1 hits ball sharply past F5 but shortstop makes an excellent stop in grass behind 3rd. Both runners going on hit but then runner from 3rd stops momentarily then heads toward home. Shortstop has three possible plays but given the positions of all runners should have just held the ball. But she does not and decides to throw to first. Throw was wild so two runs scored. After play was over the defensive team appealed that R2 missed third base.
We ruled runner safe and no argument from appealing team thankfully.

Who has responsibility of R2 touching 3rd on the play? PU or U1?

If you were plate umpire would you just declare runner safe or would you confer with your partner since you knew you did not see the touch?

To put the play in perspective I was Plate umpire. At the time of the throw by F6, R1 about 10 feet from plate so I watched her touch then turned to pick up R2, but she had already rounded third and was about halfway home.

The problem results because the base umpire must follow the ball to first. And I as plate umpire have a responsibility to first make sure R1 touches the plate.

IOr is this a situation in which it is impossible for either of us to actually see the runner touch? We declared runner safe but only because we did not actually see her miss the base.

[wadeintothem]

PU also takes lead runner touching 3B. BU has 1 & 2.

I would offer a scenario suggestion.. score/inning/misc crap not pertinent to the scenario question should be left out. We arent looking for the ESPN review of the play.

Edit, after rereading your scenario a few times to sort through it, I finally figured it out (originally I thought R1@2B R2@1B.. but I still think PU has R2 touching 3B on that play.

[tribefan1952]

It's PU's call, but you can't see everything. In 2-man mechanics, there are going to be blind spots. Pick what you feel is the most important call. Home probably wins.

The "score/inning/misc crap" is part of the scenario. I did a 20-0 freshman game this afternoon. Thank goodness for the mercy rule. Nobody would have cared about a missed 3rd base in that one.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

It's PU's call, but you can't see everything. In 2-man mechanics, there are going to be blind spots. Pick what you feel is the most important call. Home probably wins.

The "score/inning/misc crap" is part of the scenario. I did a 20-0 freshman game this afternoon. Thank goodness for the mercy rule. Nobody would have cared about a missed 3rd base in that one.

Oh my bad. Since it was a close game and 5th inning, the umpires should watch because people care. If its a blow out, dont worry about it.

[Dutch Alex]

I've had a simmelar situation last weekend. R1 coming home, R2 going to 3th and BR heading for 1st and later to 2nd. BU takes BR along to 2nd, I (PU) followed R1 at the plate. Play comes down from F8 on 3th base.
Thank God, I was in good angle but still miles away from the play AND the play wasn't even close...
Yep, it's more fun to work in 2-man system but we'll have blindspots. In 3-man more plays can/must be seen......

Except for championships, ISF and ESF-tournaments, who has that many ump's (and money) available that all games can be done in 3-man system? [don't answer that one, it's no-one and someons does it's makes me jealous]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

In a 2-UMPIRE system, runners on 2nd & 3rd: On a ball thrown to 1B, the PU is responsible for the touch of 3B of a trailing runner after seeing the touch of home by the preceding runner.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

...If you were plate umpire would you just declare runner safe or would you confer with your partner since you knew you did not see the touch?...

Nobody answered this question yet.

If this was the case, I as PU, would accept the appeal request, then go to my partner since I did not see whether or not R2 touched third on her way home. It's unlikely my partner would have seen it, either sice s/he has the BR to worry about, but it's worth asking the question.

If neither of you saw the touch/no touch of third, declare the runner safe on appeal and move on.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Andy

Nobody answered this question yet.

If this was the case, I as PU, would accept the appeal request, then go to my partner since I did not see whether or not R2 touched third on her way home. It's unlikely my partner would have seen it, either sice s/he has the BR to worry about, but it's worth asking the question.

If neither of you saw the touch/no touch of third, declare the runner safe on appeal and move on.

Indeed.

As Henry Pollard himself said more than once, "I did not see her miss the base."

The great part about it - it's the truth. Not saying she did or didn't touch the base, just that no one saw the runner miss the base.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Andy

Nobody answered this question yet.

If this was the case, I as PU, would accept the appeal request, then go to my partner since I did not see whether or not R2 touched third on her way home. It's unlikely my partner would have seen it, either sice s/he has the BR to worry about, but it's worth asking the question.

If neither of you saw the touch/no touch of third, declare the runner safe on appeal and move on.

This Andy guy is REALLY sharp........ must be from the Phoenix area.....