Machanic Question

[vcblue]

18A Sate team that wins goes receives a National birth, team that loses goes in to the looser bracket. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, no outs. Fly ball to short center field. I was BU came in and button hooked in and saw a diving catch by F8. I signal to the PU that I had a catch. Because of the location of the ball R1 and R2 were half way to their next base. Next thing I see that they both take off to the next base. At this point I am wondering if the ball hit the ground first. I did not hear an out call, so I look back and he is given a week out signal (fist never made it above the shoulder). The Defense throws the ball to second to appeal R1 not tagging up and then the fielder tags R2. 3 outs, game over, s*** hits the fan.
I don’t think my partner had a clue whether the ball hit the ground first or not. I was coming around and was not set, but I am positive I saw the ball go in to the glove.

Do you give a catch sign to your partner or do you wait for your partner to ask what you saw (if coach request help and your partner ask)?

[wadeintothem]

The proper mechanic in ASA is its PU's call unless you go out or he comes to you to discuss (which I feel would be throwing you under the bus were there to be a change - and you would certainly feel that bus if you stupidly did have something to change). You are not supposed to give a signal, its not your call if you are buttoned hooked in.

She caught it, they got doubled up, get off the field ASAP unless there is something valid to protest... for your scenario no reason to stay there. There is nothing to discuss.


so the proper mechanic is:
You button hook in and do your job, which is watch runners tag bases, he signals catch, you call the appeal out, you guys leave out the winning side, go have a sammich, laughing as you leave, leaving the girls sprawled on the field crying with all their hopes and dreams smashed.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by vcblue

18A Sate team that wins goes receives a National birth, team that loses goes in to the looser bracket. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, no outs. Fly ball to short center field. I was BU came in and button hooked in and saw a diving catch by F8. I signal to the PU that I had a catch. Because of the location of the ball R1 and R2 were half way to their next base. Next thing I see that they both take off to the next base. At this point I am wondering if the ball hit the ground first. I did not hear an out call, so I look back and he is given a week out signal (fist never made it above the shoulder). The Defense throws the ball to second to appeal R1 not tagging up and then the fielder tags R2. 3 outs, game over, s*** hits the fan.
I don’t think my partner had a clue whether the ball hit the ground first or not. I was coming around and was not set, but I am positive I saw the ball go in to the glove.

Do you give a catch sign to your partner or do you wait for your partner to ask what you saw (if coach request help and your partner ask)?

Speaking ASA...

The catch or no catch is called by the PU, period. The only exception to this is if you turn your back to the infield and go out, and that's something you should never do UNLESS you've already pregamed it (otherwise, your partner will be dragging you under the bus along with him).

If I'm out on the bases, I will not make the call. At this point, I'm buttonhooking into the infield at a decent jog. If I get a deer in headlights look from my partner, AND I'm certain that I saw a catch or no catch, I'll give a very subtle signal to my partner (again, PREGAME). It'll either look like I'm pumping a blood pressure cuff next to my hip (catch), or I'll wiggle my hand with my palm down next to my hip (no catch). In all my years, no one has ever seen it (knock on wood) except for my partners.

It sounds like your partner was uncertain of the call, as you described his out call as weak. Not good for your partner. It would have been wise for him to have conference with you. Even if you both get the call wrong, it's better than making a weak-a$$ call and then bailing off the field.

However, you should not have made the call for a catch or no catch unless you pregamed it, and it would have been better if you'd gone out to the outfield instead of buttonhooking in.

[NCASAUmp]

Holy crap, is there an echo in here? I heard wade's voice twice.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Holy crap, is there an echo in here? I heard wade's voice twice.

Well.. except I'm all for bailing off the field... Some umpires believe they can assuage hostile crowds after a game ending call by hanging around and offering love and tenderness.

That is not the case.

Leave. Quickly.

He got the call right.

Get out of there and tell him "Holy crap homie! You gotta sell that fool. Even if you arent sure, sell it harder."

[wadeintothem]

and you cant turn that dude. No conference. You live by your call. No throwing your partners under the bus. Get your @$$ from behind the plate and make your call. Limit yourself to only one side being irate.

[vcblue]

yep the old fist on the belt or slightly off to the side is a habit that I am breaking. I can just imagine if the DC saw it and the call went the other way. Me think I would have been in trouble. BTW hear is what we heard as we left as we left the field fast.

You are the worst umpires ever! You lost the game for us! And my faviote and directed at me (the loosing team was a local team for me) You were s***ty when she was 10 and your s***ty when she is 17.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by vcblue

18A Sate team that wins goes receives a National birth, team that loses goes in to the looser bracket. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, no outs. Fly ball to short center field. I was BU came in and button hooked in and saw a diving catch by F8. I signal to the PU that I had a catch. Because of the location of the ball R1 and R2 were half way to their next base. Next thing I see that they both take off to the next base. At this point I am wondering if the ball hit the ground first. I did not hear an out call, so I look back and he is given a week out signal (fist never made it above the shoulder). The Defense throws the ball to second to appeal R1 not tagging up and then the fielder tags R2. 3 outs, game over, s*** hits the fan.
I don’t think my partner had a clue whether the ball hit the ground first or not. I was coming around and was not set, but I am positive I saw the ball go in to the glove.

Do you give a catch sign to your partner or do you wait for your partner to ask what you saw (if coach request help and your partner ask)?

Okay, since neither gave you an answer, I will.

I will usually give a nod to my partner, but only if I'm sure. Whether he sees it or not isn't my problem, I've got my responsibilities and can only offer so much assistence.

In the past, many umpires would give a hand signal (often a closed fist), but the players and coaches have picked up on that and you just as well make openly conflicting calls. For that reason, I have tried to stay away from little stuff like that.

[wadeintothem]

Hey, I heard a great one recently.


Coach: "Why didnt you call Infield Fly?"
Me: "Theres no way that could be caught with ordinary effort coach, in fact it wasnt caught." (They threw the runner out at 1, other 2 runners advanced so the IF call meant nothing anyway, although I bet he thought IF was dead ball)
"Oh I'm sure those words are in the rule book "ordinary effort". You know you just cant make up rules as you go along."

WTF do you say to that?

[MNBlue]

I told this to a first year umpire this weekend when asked about not being able to see a pick at three in the 1-umpire system: "Your job is to make a decision. If you don't have all the information and aren't about to get it, make a decision and sell the crap out of it!"

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

"Oh I'm sure those words are in the rule book "ordinary effort. You know you just cant make up rules as you go along."

WTF do you say to that?

How about, "Why not! You apparently are!"

Or, "How would you know if I'm making up rules or not! You obviously haven't read the rule book!"

Just a thought or two.

[wadeintothem]

Can I use this opportunity to tell all base umpires that in ASA, we arent supposed to give the "catch" signal on 3rd strike, but if you are prone to doing that (and sometimes it is helpful, even though ASA frowns upon it) - I definitely dont need the signal

A) With a runner on 1 with less than 2 outs
B) when the ball is caught over the head of the batter
C) when the ball rolls across the plate.

I got all those areas covered, thanks.

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Hey, I heard a great one recently.


Coach: "Why didnt you call Infield Fly?"
Me: "Theres no way that could be caught with ordinary effort coach, in fact it wasnt caught." (They threw the runner out at 1, other 2 runners advanced so the IF call meant nothing anyway, although I bet he thought IF was dead ball)
"Oh I'm sure those words are in the rule book "ordinary effort". You know you just cant make up rules as you go along."

WTF do you say to that?

Ask the coach what color the rule book is this year.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Hey, I heard a great one recently.


Coach: "Why didnt you call Infield Fly?"
Me: "Theres no way that could be caught with ordinary effort coach, in fact it wasnt caught." (They threw the runner out at 1, other 2 runners advanced so the IF call meant nothing anyway, although I bet he thought IF was dead ball)
"Oh I'm sure those words are in the rule book "ordinary effort". You know you just cant make up rules as you go along."

WTF do you say to that?

WTF I say to that? "Coach, you just accused me of making up rules when in fact I just followed a rule as it's written. For that, you have been sentenced to the rest of the game in the parking lot. Have a nice walk!"