The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 23, 2009, 09:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,158
Opinions please

Partner and I had a minor disagreement on this play.
I'm BU. R1 on 1B. Batter hits a gapper to right field. I follow the batter into 2B,pretty close play. Then F6 comes up throwing to 3B for a play on R1 ,who slipped rounding 2B, a rocket of a throw that missed F1 who was at 3B. The throw then strikes the coach in the 3B coaching box.

He did make a nice effort to jump out of the way but the throw nailed him in his foot. We had to hold up the game for him to regain his composure.

Partner who was at 3B for call immediately came up with "Dead ball". So play stopped. I thought we should have continued play but he believed the coach was a form of detached equipment and hence it was a blocked ball. The ball only rolled a couple of feet so it didn't really have any effect on play but was wondering what others thought about killing the play ?
__________________
"I'll take you home" says Geoff Tate
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 23, 2009, 10:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
I've got nothing on this.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 23, 2009, 10:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 746
Not killing it. You were right.

Coach is not detached equipment. Conjecture says that idea popped in his head and he went with it. Not a valid point.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 23, 2009, 10:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 257
Detached Equipment and Blocked ball are two different rules under Rule 8-5. This can be in no way detached equipment. You only need to read the definitions to figure that out. It could be a block ball (8-5-G) if the judgement of your partner the fielder could not field the ball because the coach was in the way. However, this is a 2-base award from the tie of the throw. Did you partner award two bases? I would have loved to see that and how he explained it to the DC. There most likely would be an ejection at the end

This is nothing let it play out.

Last edited by vcblue; Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 10:29pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 23, 2009, 10:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
In my opinion, as long as the coach is in the box where s/he should be and doesn't perform an act that actually hinders the defense from making an out on a runner, I've got nothing. The coach's box is not a sanctuary, but that's where they're supposed to be.

If they're doing what they're supposed to be doing where they're supposed to be doing it, then I'm not calling it.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 08:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 332
dont kill it unless he blocks the ball and hinders defensive players from getting it thus making it blocked.
__________________
when the world gets in my face I say Have a nice day

For all those who don't know ... Ed Hickox is the MAN

NFHS NCAA PONY ASA ISC USSSA
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 09:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu View Post
dont kill it unless he blocks the ball and hinders defensive players from getting it thus making it blocked.
Speaking ASA

Any interference by the coach on this play would need to be intentional. (8.7.0) even if it hinders the defensive players.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 09:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Its a little odd an umpire would consider a coach as detached equipment.

I would have been at this umpire with an open rule book post game. Its important everyone takes time to look at a rule if its confusing on the field.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 09:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Speaking ASA

Any interference by the coach on this play would need to be intentional. (8.7.0) even if it hinders the defensive players.
Hell, he may have even HELPED the defense if the ball rolled back towards fair territory.

I had a similar play a couple years ago that I believe I mentioned on the forum. A hard throw to 3B came from left center or centerfield, but it was off. It bounced off the fence and hit the on-deck batter in the foot (who was honestly trying to avoid the ball) while he was in the circle. The ball popped up a couple of feet in the air, and F1 (who was backing up the throw) was able to catch it in mid-air and throw to F2 to attempt to retire the runner. The runner was safe, but it was a VERY close play.

The defense wanted an INT call, but if the ball hadn't have hit the on-deck batter, it would have gone to the backstop where no one was covering. If anything, the bounce it took off the on-deck batter's foot helped, not hindered, the defense.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 10:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem View Post
Its a little odd an umpire would consider a coach as detached equipment.

I would have been at this umpire with an open rule book post game. Its important everyone takes time to look at a rule if its confusing on the field.
Aren't you the little optimist .
__________________
"I'll take you home" says Geoff Tate
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 10:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref View Post
Aren't you the little optimist .
Yeah, well... There's a reason why wade (and a lot of us on this board) is advancing above other umpires.

He gives a sh1t.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 10:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 67
Wow! The coach was actually where he was supposed to be? I'm not penalizing the offense for a missed throw or a bad throw if we were all in our places with bright shiny faces. Let's play...and no coach just because your foot is hurt you still can't sit on your bucket in the coaches box.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 10:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 741
Send a message via Yahoo to MNBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem View Post
Its a little odd an umpire would consider a coach as detached equipment.
I've seen some coaches lose their heads. Could that be detached equipment?
__________________
Mark

NFHS, NCAA, NAFA
"If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?" Anton Chigurh - "No Country for Old Men"
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp View Post
Yeah, well... There's a reason why wade (and a lot of us on this board) is advancing above other umpires.

He gives a sh1t.
Well I get that.

I'm also down with alot of the blues on this board are probably better then your average local blue and advancing appropriately.

My experience is something along the lines of 75 % just don't know some of the more basic rules (DP/Flex) and pretty fundermental mechanics.

Hence my optimistic comment.
__________________
"I'll take you home" says Geoff Tate
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2009, 11:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp View Post
Hell, he may have even HELPED the defense if the ball rolled back towards fair territory.

I had a similar play a couple years ago that I believe I mentioned on the forum. A hard throw to 3B came from left center or centerfield, but it was off. It bounced off the fence and hit the on-deck batter in the foot (who was honestly trying to avoid the ball) while he was in the circle. The ball popped up a couple of feet in the air, and F1 (who was backing up the throw) was able to catch it in mid-air and throw to F2 to attempt to retire the runner. The runner was safe, but it was a VERY close play.

The defense wanted an INT call, but if the ball hadn't have hit the on-deck batter, it would have gone to the backstop where no one was covering. If anything, the bounce it took off the on-deck batter's foot helped, not hindered, the defense.
You need to be careful, though. The ODB does not enjoy the same protection as a coach. Being in the circle or trying to avoid being hit does not excuse the ODB from an INT call.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need opinions please. DeputyUICHousto Softball 14 Mon Jun 22, 2009 08:54am
Your opinions please hawk65 Basketball 41 Thu Feb 01, 2007 01:52pm
Opinions radwaste50 Football 15 Wed Aug 30, 2006 02:38am
Need Opinions tmp44 Basketball 12 Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:17am
Opinions Please..... thumpferee Basketball 5 Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:28am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:21am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1