Umpire Error

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Im gonna tackle this in order of the posts made

Irishmafia

no need to yell

Yeah, there is when what has been made obscenely apparent is still being raised as an issue.

this isnt some magical world where once your foot lands outside the batters box, you lose all ability to hit the ball, obviously the ump reversed his decision to declare it a dead ball. i dont know how that wasnt 100% clear from the initial post

Yeah, there is. It is called DEAD BALL! I'm screaming since you apparently do not know that NOTHING can happen once a dead ball situation occurs. That means no matter what the retired batter did with the bat to the ball, for the purpose of the game, absoluty nothing happened. Cannot rule on something that did not occur.

no, the ump decided to award the runners what bases they would have obtained if the ump said nothing about the batter being out of the batters box. once again, i dont know how that wasnt 100% clear from the initial post

How can you not know it wasn't 100% clear since you are the ONLY one who claims to have gotten the message even though your version is still completely supposition. When we are done here, can you tell us what the lyrics to American Pie meant?

did you even read the post? the ump decided he was wrong in saying the batter was out of the box, so he corrected his mistake as best he thought he could.

No, the OP makes no reference to the umpire thinking he was wrong. It only states that the umpires got together to make up some mystical ruling that has zero basis. I don't know what they were smoking, but when you are done with American Pie, can you cover Puff the Magic Dragon lyrics, too?

no, 2 previous posters did not understand this point, as demonstrated earlier in my post

No, EVERYONE got that point and understand the rule quite well as they have posted.

that one Ill take the blame for. I thought inmates might have been slang for something else, i didnt know he literally meant it was a game in a prison.

Than how can you provide supposition for what happened in the game?

Side note, what prison has softball games with mutliple umpires, and with "spectators" who care enough about a play to post a question about it online??? What prison is this, if I ever go to jail, I want to go there.

As noted by SteveM, there are umpires in prisons and we occasionally provide clinics for them. If they have that many umpires, maybe they can afford two a game. If not inmates, maybe they cannot get umpires to work games alone.

[quote]
this is where I bet the majority of the ppl on here would disagree with me. I dont care what level of play or sport, the umpires/referees job is to get the call correct. If they initially made a wrong call, be a man, admit you messed up, and fix it as best as possible.[quote]

Yes, get it correct within the framework of the rule book and interpretations provided by the staff of the sanctioning body.

I understand the ppl on here are very knowledgable and have been doing this a long time. That was more a reflection of the certified ASA umpires that have umped games I play in, most of them dont even know basic rules. I could go through a litany of rules/calls they have botched severly. Im sure there are good umpires out there, just not many doing slow pitch softball.

Tell me, how can you get your foot in your mouth while your head is up your ***?

This one is over.

[azbigdawg]

I understand the ppl on here are very knowledgable and have been doing this a long time. That was more a reflection of the certified ASA umpires that have umped games I play in, most of them dont even know basic rules. I could go through a litany of rules/calls they have botched severly. Im sure there are good umpires out there, just not many doing slow pitch softball.[/QUOTE]

I felt bad for calling you an idiot.....now Im seeing that Im too nice to you

Originally Posted by Steve M

Since these are inmates, I'm reminded of a story my state uic tells when saying he used to think there are no dumb questions. He was giving an umpire clinic at a state prison and was speaking of a ball hit to a collapsable fence. He asked something to the effect of "Do you have fences here?"

That's a good one.

Originally Posted by Steve M

As to you saying "most slow pitch umps dont even know there is a rule book let alone can cite rule 5 section 6 subletter E part ii (just saying the softball rulebook is overly complex)." You've got several folks here who umpire a lot of slow pitch and I suspect they take great exception to that.

I'm one of them, with 16 years on the field total. Matter of fact, the past 10 years, I've had two rulebooks to work from, the USSSA and ASA books. (Even worse, this past week I had to cram the SPA book into my mind!)

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

You guys are all missing the point of the post.

the home plate ump initially thought the batter had stepped out of the batters box (ie since there was no painted lines, thought he was too far towards the pitcher when he hit the ball). the runners both ran on contact, the batter probably jogged to 1B, by the time everyone realized what had happened, the runners had both proceeding 1 base and probably made a turn, and the OF just picked up the ball and was about to throw it to the infield.

now the action is over, since its just slow pitch, the umpire rethought his initial out of box call and ruled the hit was legal, and awarded bases based on what was "fair" not necessarily what is written in the rules, most slow pitch umps dont even know there is a rule book let alone can cite rule 5 section 6 subletter E part ii (just saying the softball rulebook is overly complex).

since this is a slow pitch game (probably a rec league), and most slow pitch leagues dont paint the batters boxes for whatever reason, the ump just did what he thought was right to correct his mistake. its not like the OF let a flyball drop or anything like that, so its really no big deal. if anything, he should have just awarded the batter 1st and only move the runners up 1 base.

the previous responses to the thread are unnecessarily condescending and the posters need to back off their "rulebook knowledge" pedestals, its slow pitch softball, ppl [most] play just to have fun.

Seems like, from the way you are describing the situation, there is not much attention to detail or the rules of softball with that group of people... so why bother asking here?
Just along doing whatever feels right at the time ......

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

How can you not know it wasn't 100% clear since you are the ONLY one who claims to have gotten the message even though your version is still completely supposition. When we are done here, can you tell us what the lyrics to American Pie meant?

Oooh! Oooh! Pick me! I know it, teach! Pick me!

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, the OP makes no reference to the umpire thinking he was wrong. It only states that the umpires got together to make up some mystical ruling that has zero basis. I don't know what they were smoking, but when you are done with American Pie, can you cover Puff the Magic Dragon lyrics, too?

I'll take "Drug References in Pop Culture" for $500, Alex.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Oooh! Oooh! Pick me! I know it, teach! Pick me!



I'll take "Drug References in Pop Culture" for $500, Alex.

Along the same lines, music from the past - he may have eaten the yellow snow.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Along the same lines, music from the past - he may have eaten the yellow snow.

Ikke spis det gule snø.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

I don't appreciate you singling me out. If the post was clear to you....you should have addressed the OP. Not those of us who know the rules and wanted to really help.

**** I CLEARLY did not single you out. IF you notice in my second post i went through about 3 or 4 posters comments. Maybe you dont know what singling someone out means.

[steveshane67]

Yeah, there is. It is called DEAD BALL! I'm screaming since you apparently do not know that NOTHING can happen once a dead ball situation occurs. That means no matter what the retired batter did with the bat to the ball, for the purpose of the game, absoluty nothing happened. Cannot rule on something that did not occur.

So lets take this example, the ump calls batter out of box, the ball is hit over the fence for an apparent HR. The ump realizes that the batter was not in fact out of the batters box (for whatever reason, he saw a footprint, misunderstood where the batters box ends....) Are you saying the right thing to do is to uphold the out call and not award a HR? if so, you need to rethink the purpose of umpires.

How can you not know it wasn't 100% clear since you are the ONLY one who claims to have gotten the message even though your version is still completely supposition.

No, the OP makes no reference to the umpire thinking he was wrong. It only states that the umpires got together to make up some mystical ruling that has zero basis.

The OP says "The umpires met and ruled ...." I am the only one who has the intellect to realize that this means the umps met and made a ruling bc they made a mistake, hence the batter was not in fact out of the box????

Theres no other logical explanation to award anyone any bases unless the reason is an erroneous call by the ump.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I'm one of them, with 16 years on the field total. Matter of fact, the past 10 years, I've had two rulebooks to work from, the USSSA and ASA books. (Even worse, this past week I had to cram the SPA book into my mind!)

Dont you think its a fair assessment to say that an umpire that posts on an officiating website might be among the top % most knowledgeable among umpires???

Once again, I wasnt saying the umps on here are bad, just saying most of the umps ive personally seen (NE, SW, and Midwest) are not good.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

***** I CLEARLY did not single you out. IF you notice in my second post i went through about 3 or 4 posters comments. Maybe you dont know what singling someone out means.

You quoted MY post with your ramble and babble and connected it to three or four other quotes. You singled ME out as being one that made a "giant leap in deductive reasoning skills." "Not reading the first post" and "beating a dead horse".

YOU must be the "slow pitch ump" that does not know the rule book that you refer to.

Up to this point I think I was very fair to you. You resort to name calling and make a comment like that...I have nothing further to say to you. I'm done with you.

Thank god.