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Old Wed Apr 24, 2002, 09:45am
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If a runner has been awarded a base (home) by the PU, but then it is realized that he should have been sent to 3B only, can it be fixed? I'm sure if it is discovered right away, no problem, but what if the next batter has already received two pitches?

Common sense tells me that it is too late, but since I have never seen this situation before, I just want to know for sure.
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Old Thu Apr 25, 2002, 06:46am
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I would say that the award error could be fixed without a problem until the next pitch is made. This is why it is a good idea for umpires to confer on base awards. You take one shot at it and get it right the 1st time.

If an error in awarding the bases, such as you stated, is made and not noticed by anyone until after the next pitch, then everyone is stuck with the mistake. Everything in baseball previous to a pitch is legalized when a pitch is made. Also, there could be no protest as a pitch was made to legalize the error.
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Old Thu Apr 25, 2002, 07:28am
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Originally posted by Marty Rogers

If a runner has been awarded a base (home) by the PU, but then it is realized that he should have been sent to 3B only, can it be fixed? I'm sure if it is discovered right away, no problem, but what if the next batter has already received two pitches?

Common sense tells me that it is too late, but since I have never seen this situation before, I just want to know for sure.


OBR 4.19 PROTESTING GAMES. Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch is made or a runner is retired.

I realize you didn't ask about protests, but the point is, once we have a pitch (legal or illegal) or an attempted play to retire a runner - all bets off.

It's the manager's job to bring this to the attention of the men/ women in blue at the time of the misapplication.

Pete Booth


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Old Thu Apr 25, 2002, 10:15am
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Thanks for your clarification, which was how I figured it would be.
A vetran varsity umpire did this while I was
sending BR to 2B.
I went to C position, and after a pitch, realized there was no runner on 3B.
That's when the opposing coach noticed it, too.
Luckily, his team won by 8 runs and it was forgotten (except by me).
I will be more heads-up in from now on.
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Old Thu Apr 25, 2002, 02:15pm
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Marty, I had a situation a few years ago in Fed ball that I asked about in a different forum.

    Situation: Top of first inning, R1 and R3 with 2 outs.
    Batter hits double scoring R3, but R1 fails to touch 2B en route to 3B. Under the old Fed appeal rule when the play was over I enforced the infraction calling the runner out, but I had a brain fart and allowed the run to score thinking it was a previous runner.

    During the next half inning I replayed the situation in my mind and realized the run should NOT have been scored since the infraction was the 3rd out at a forced base. I approached the PU between half innings and told him the error, and that I felt we needed to correct the score---especially since this was an inning ending play whereby there was no further play thereafter. He elected to let the issue remain overlooked since both coaches had accepted it without argument.

    This was a JV game that ended in a tie due to the varsity game needing to be started on time. That run likely could have been the difference in the game.

A Fed interpreter checked Indianapolis on the issue of whether it would have been legal to go back and correct this scoring error. The response was per 10-2-3m the error should have been corrected even though it was now a half inning later.





So......that brings us to your situation.
As you wrote the situation, the misapplication of the award caused a scorekeeping error.
The question now arises for Fed...........
    Is this an award error, or is it also a scorekeeping error since it allowed a score that the umpires were aware should not be scored?

While I tend to agree that a pitch, play, or attempted play is the logical response, there seems to be conflict still with the issue---at least in Fed with 10-2-3m---of maintaining a correct score.

While we have many rules and caseplays addressing varying situations, the concept of correcting umpire mistakes is largely unaddressed with specifics. It's an area that has been hotly debated regarding correcting a call (reference the "Fab Five"), but is even less addressed related to other umpire error. In your situation, I would not have corrected the award error since play had continued which could have been affected by the improper award (although that possibility is rather remote).

My error was not further complicated by an award error---it was purely scoring. And although my error in the top of the first inning had little impact on ensuing play in the bottom half of the inning, what if that error would have occurred in the top of the 7th inning? Might it have affected play in the bottom of the inning? Still, the rule and ruling is the same regardless of the inning.

Hmmmm......no doubt what would have occurred in the JV game if we would have happened to remember the scoring error of the first inning in the bottom of the 7th inning........
and like I said, the Fed rule doesn't stipulate when to apply 10-2-3m and when not to apply 10-2-3m......
but common sense would certainly prevail..........


Just my opinion,

Freix





[Edited by Bfair on Apr 25th, 2002 at 02:19 PM]
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