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Umpire Error--Ruling?
Had this situation occur while I was working the plate. What are your thoughts?
R1, R2, R3 are on 3rd, 2nd and 1st base, respectively. B4 hits a shallow fly to F8. U2 moves to the play to make a ruling. F8 scoops for the ball and it appears as though it could be a catch. U2 moves his fist up to signal "out." R2 and R3 turn and return to 2nd and 1st base. B4 stops running, but continues to job to 1st base, does not abandon or enter the dugout. R1 tags up and scores. After 1-2 seconds, U2 realizes that F8 did not catch the ball and makes a "safe" signal to indicate that the ball was not caught. There is a 5-10 second delay. The ball is returned to F1, when F5 yells "The ball is still live." R2 and R3 start to run to 3rd and 2nd. F5 receives the ball, steps on 3rd base and then tags R2. F5 throws to F4, who catches the ball and steps on 2nd prior to R3 arriving, but does not tag R3. B4 is standing on 1st base. Thoughts/Ruling? My two theories at play are: 1. The umpire's error caused the runners and batter-runner to stop and they should not be penalized for the umpire error. R2 and R3 should be placed on 3rd and 2nd base. 2. The runners and batter-runners need to ignore an initial signal, and contine playing, realizing that the ball was not caught. R2 and R3 are OUT on appeal at 3rd and 2nd base. |
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________ Mauryjones Last edited by youngump; Mon Sep 19, 2011 at 06:19pm. |
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In ASA, the plate umpire is empowered to resolve any issues where a delay or reversal of a call by an umpire places runners in jeopardy. It sounds like this sitch qualifies.
I say put the BR on 1B, advancing all runners one base. Let the BU get chewed by the DC for the screw-up. I'll admit I've made a similar mistake by calling a catch in the outfield a split second too early.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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He should have just stuck with his original call after that long of a delay and bit the bullet. It would have been a whole lot easier to fade the heat from that judgement call then having all the other junk happen. |
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Obviously, I can't speak for what went through the umpire's mind to make him/her change the call. However, if that IS the right call, then the BU should bite the bullet and get it right. Either way, the BU's screwed. If the BU is screwed, do the right thing. When I made a similar mistake, the DC came out to talk to me. I said, "yep, I screwed up. It wasn't a catch, and if a call is reversed, the PU (me) is empowered to correct the situation." I advanced the BR, and the forced runners advanced one base as well. It's what would have happened had I not called a catch. The DC said, "well, I don't like it, but I appreciate your honesty. I understand you're doing what you have to do," and he walked away. I've called a number of games after that for the same coach, and he never brought it up or gave me any problems. Matter of fact, he's the same coach in this thread, and this thread came after my screwed up call.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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I correct my original statement "thoughts" to R2 and R3 not being out on "appeal" but rather because of a force...which I thought of as "appeal" only because of the long delay. My thought on that is similar to the Infield Fly. Even if the PU does not call an IF, the runners are expected to know the situation and requirements for IF, and may stay on their base. Sorry for the lack of casebook/rules citation, as I don't have them at my house. Does anyone believe that the time (split second vs 1-2 seconds) between the BU changing the call matters? IE, if he immediately reversed the call, would R2 and R3, and BR be responsible for seeing that reversal? Thanks for all the comments! Breaking it down, again, makes it seem to me that in this situation, the runners and batter-runner should have been placed at the bases they would have acheived had the original call been correct. |
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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As others have stated, you have to determine if the reversal put them in jeopardy. Don't overread the intent of "delay" in a one or two second interval, remember that we would have wanted the umpire to delay to begin with, to get the call right. We wouldn't teach and preach "It isn't anything until you call it!!" if a delay to get it right wasn't appropriate. In my mind, you had to be talking about the 5-10 second interval as the delay by the umpire, before that affected the ruling.
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF |
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The rule specifically deals with reversal of a call or a delayed call, not any act in general that confuses the players or places a team in jeopardy. For example, if an umpire rules a ball as fair, points properly, but verbalizes FAIR BALL and runners react as if he said FOUL BALL while the defense plays the ball as fair and gets easy outs... 10-3-C offers no help to the poor umpire (or to the offense). He did not delay the call, and he did not reverse the call. He just confused the offense. Too bad, so sad.
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Tom |
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I had a guy catch a homerun ball off the netting behind the fence. Made the initial call of out, and about 3 seconds after replaying it my head had to change the call. |
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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Tom |
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Thanks for clarifying this for me.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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