The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
2 runners on a base 2 runners on a base
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 09:10am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 257
Question 2 runners on a base
R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, no outs. B3 bunts up 3rd base line. F5 throws to 1st for the out. For some reason R1 starts running late, F3 throws the F6 on 3rd and R1 gets in to a pickle. R2 is already on second and is not moving. Eventually R1 and R2 are on second. The fielder with the ball first tags R1 and the BU calls safe then she tags R2 and he calls out.
My understanding is the first runner to legally occupy the base is entitled to the base. (8-3-E-Effect). I understand that the force was off once B3 was put out at 1st. However, I still believe R1 should have been called out not R2. The only reason this matters is because R1 is fast and R2 is slow.
Did my partner get it right?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 09:36am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Why would an umpire care who was faster?

The rule is pretty clear as you so eloquently stated it..
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 10:04am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcblue View Post
...Did my partner get it right?
Yes.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 10:06am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcblue View Post
R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, no outs. B3 bunts up 3rd base line. F5 throws to 1st for the out. For some reason R1 starts running late, F3 throws the F6 on 3rd and R1 gets in to a pickle. R2 is already on second and is not moving. Eventually R1 and R2 are on second. The fielder with the ball first tags R1 and the BU calls safe then she tags R2 and he calls out.
My understanding is the first runner to legally occupy the base is entitled to the base. (8-3-E-Effect). I understand that the force was off once B3 was put out at 1st. However, I still believe R1 should have been called out not R2. The only reason this matters is because R1 is fast and R2 is slow.
Did my partner get it right?
In the game chronology, who was the FIRST runner of the two to occupy second base?
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 10:06am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Yes.
Ahhhh...you went and gave him the answer!
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 10:28am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem View Post
Why would an umpire care who was faster?...
Because if the declares the faster runner out, leaving the slower runner on base, he increases his chances of getting to the third out of the inning quickly!
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 10:52am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Because if the declares the faster runner out, leaving the slower runner on base, he increases his chances of getting to the third out of the inning quickly!
That is an excellent point - like wise, with a tie score, you would want to call out the slower runner!

That vcblue is always thinkin!

__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 11:27am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcblue View Post
My understanding is the first runner to legally occupy the base is entitled to the base. (8-3-E-Effect).
Is this NFHS or ASA? I don't do ASA, so not familiar with that rules set, but 8-3-E and its effect (NFHS) states that the runner who first legal occupied the base shall be entitled to it. R1 had occupied second base before the pitch. She lost that right when she was forced to move on the bunt, but doesn't she regain that right when the force was removed after the batter-runner was put out at first? In such a case, won't it be the trailing runner than would be declared out, if tagged?
__________________
"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade."
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 11:36am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoBits View Post
Is this NFHS or ASA? I don't do ASA, so not familiar with that rules set, but 8-3-E and its effect (NFHS) states that the runner who first legal occupied the base shall be entitled to it. R1 had occupied second base before the pitch. She lost that right when she was forced to move on the bunt, but doesn't she regain that right when the force was removed after the batter-runner was put out at first? In such a case, won't it be the trailing runner than would be declared out, if tagged?
Yeah, that is what happened.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 11:36am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 257
In getting ready to go to the 18A Western National I am think that coaches will be a little more savvy then 12A Travel Daddy Coaches, and they may bring it up in order to have a faster runner in scoring position.

TwoBits brings up the question that we all I have talked to have, "R1 had occupied second base before the pitch. She lost that right when she was forced to move on the bunt, but doesn't she regain that right when the force was removed after the batter-runner was put out at first? In such a case, won't it be the trailing runner than would be declared out, if tagged"?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 11:39am
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem View Post
That is an excellent point - like wise, with a tie score, you would want to call out the slower runner!

That vcblue is always thinkin!
I also have two watches that are same except one is two minutes faster
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 12:11pm
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Yeah, that is what happened.
Oops. Got R1 and R2 switched around in my head.
__________________
"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 01:43pm
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi View Post
Ahhhh...you went and gave him the answer!
Just note that someone finally asked a question that Tom only needed one word to answer. Mike used 5.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 20, 2009, 02:40pm
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Yes.


Just note that someone finally asked a question that Tom only needed one word to answer. Mike used 5.


I've just been amused at all of the words in this thread AFTER my succinct reply!
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 02, 2009, 09:07pm
Official Forum Member
  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 130
lead runner is entitled to base, unless it is a force play, where then the lead runner is entitled to the base he is forced to...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two runners occupying the same base Bart Softball 18 Wed Sep 06, 2006 02:36pm
Two runners on same base? fan Softball 3 Thu Apr 27, 2006 07:54pm
2 runners on third base strike4 Softball 4 Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:42pm
2-runners....1 base gumpire Baseball 49 Wed Apr 07, 2004 02:01pm
2 runners on the same base Gre144 Baseball 4 Mon Jun 04, 2001 07:58am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23pm.

The Official Forum - Archive - Top


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1