Poor OC

[greymule]

Somewhere in the umpire manual or the case book or the rules supplement is an admonition that the LBR is not in effect when F1 in the circle acts as a cutoff. The governing principle might be as follows: "With a play in progress, the LBR does not necessarily go into effect the instant F1 gets the ball in the circle. Depending on the type of play, use your judgment to give the runners a little time to make the transition from ball in play to ball in the circle."

The OP is a HTBT, but unfortunately, the call was apparently correct. I think that the LBR has outlived whatever usefulness it had, especially at the higher levels.

[SRW]

I tend to agree with Mike on this one. 8.7.T shouldn't be used as a "gotcha" in the middle of playing action to get an out. If runners were still advancing legitimately, playing action hasn't really ceased, and the F1 hasn't really gone from being a fielder to being the pitcher.

In this situation, what was called in the OP was a case of "rulebook right, ballfield wrong," IMHO.

However, now that dead ball was (incorrectly?) called, you can't advance the runner coming home, so putting her back on 3B was the right thing to do.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by SRW

I tend to agree with Mike on this one. 8.7.T shouldn't be used as a "gotcha" in the middle of playing action to get an out. If runners were still advancing legitimately, playing action hasn't really ceased, and the F1 hasn't really gone from being a fielder to being the pitcher.

In this situation, what was called in the OP was a case of "rulebook right, ballfield wrong," IMHO.

However, now that dead ball was (incorrectly?) called, you can't advance the runner coming home, so putting her back on 3B was the right thing to do.

"Playing action" isn't a part of the LBR definition. Now maybe it should be and personally I would support the change. However, the rulebook is clear that once you have stopped at a base and the pitcher has the ball in the circle, you can not leave said base unless the pitcher makes a play. Some coaches understand the look back rule and will not throw in this situation knowing that the runner on 1st can advance. If they believe they don't have a good chance at getting the lead runner out, they will just hold the ball. Similar to the play where R1 on 3rd gets a lead off on the release of the pitch as the BR walks to first. Once the BR touches 1st base the LBR is in effect if the pitcher has the ball in the circle. Often times the BR will continue on to 2nd. Many coaches teach their pitcher to not make a play. The lead runner at 3rd better be heading back to 3rd at this point. And most teams teach the player to do just that. Are you going to allow the lead runner to stand off of the base until the BR gets to 2nd? I'm not. I don't see that the OP is much different than this play.

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by SRW

In this situation, what was called in the OP was a case of "rulebook right, ballfield wrong," IMHO.

Last year at The So-cal 18gold regional the UIC said something to me that makes since. "You can never be wrong for making a call supported by the book".

In no way did I make a quick call on this. I never do, but at some point you have to make the call and then be ready to explain your ruling.

IMHO it would have been easy to turn a blind eye to this play, but then I may have been the cause of one team winning over the other. Instead it was the coach.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by vcblue

..."You can never be wrong for making a call supported by the book"....

hmmmm.... whatchasayboutdis, wade?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

hmmmm.... whatchasayboutdis, wade?

Ha!

The WORST calls are sometimes supported by the rule book

[vcblue]

The bottom line here is I need to get fired from my 8 to 5 job so I can collect unemployment and start my own business. Then I can stop only working rec. and travel, and start working higher level ball.

Mickey Mouse and I are not friends.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Okay, that's more like it.

Yes, I do believe the LBR is no longer a necessity. Instead of providing control of the runners to keep the game moving (OMG, a speed up rule!), it has become a tool for a defensive strategy. The rule and it's application has gotten out of control.

I agree with Tom that there should be a more definitive demarcation of when a player is a pitcher or fielder.